To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

[TeaKlaxon]

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

@LardyDee

Feminists: "Listen to women"

Gender Criticals: "No, not those ones!"

That's not the point though. "Gender criticals" (btw its not only feminists who want single sex provisions to be single sex) are saying that the women saying "no" to spaces becoming mixed sex should be the default. Women who are unable to share intimate spaces with men will be excluded if they are made mixed sex whereas the women who don't mind sharing will be fine either way.

So it's not as simple as saying "don't listen to those women" is it? The point is if any women say no then it's no and the privileged few who don't think they'll be affected don't get to speak on behalf of the rest of us, our voice will be heard.

I've just googled Eloise Stonborough and I don't believe for a second she gets challenged as often as she claims. I have a basis for that assumption - her appearance. What's your basis for assuming this anonymous woman is a liar?

I want to point out again the tweet we are talking about

I received this message today: “I was at the Barbican yesterday where there were male toilets, disabled toilets, and gender neutral toilets. I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral I am a woman and they laughed in my face. Women are being erased.”

What part of the Barbicans statement you are referring to with

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong. is dealing with the person hired to assist customers not laughing at the woman who asked the question?

Because I just saw something about how many toilets they have and that is not the issue of that tweet.

But I may have missed it so am happy to be corrected if you post a link.

I still don’t really get this.

So basically the problem is that someone allegedly is lying in a tweet (About being laughed at and not directed properly)?

But why can’t the women’s toilets be close to the other toilets? Flooding issues are common in menopausal women (urgent need of toilets) and my 12-year old daughter sometimes has flooding issues too. She would be even more mortified to share a toilet with men. Are women’s toilets available easily or not?

Why is the issues that some random person may or may not be lying instead of making sure that there are sufficient toilets for everyone? Isn’t that what that MP (who I never heard of) was trying to do?

This thread is bonkers. People lie on Twitter the whole time.

@TeaKlaxon Who is she? Is she one of the butch lesbians you know?

What about none lesbian butch women ? Isn't it the lesbianism irrelevant ?

Except to make the point that she is 'gender critical' and disagrees with the concept of gender neutral toilets

I hope that you warmed up before attempting that reach. At no point has anyone opposed third spaces. The woman simply asked where the women's toilets were because she couldn't use the GN ones. No feminist on here opposes third spaces, so long as it doesn't result in a reduction in female facilities.

I don't listen to handmaidens anymore. If you are concerned about me not listening to some women. Or people who bullshit about lesbians being sexual predators.

If butch lesbians are being challenged in women's toilets these days it is because women are no longer trusting anyone who presents as male in a public place because of the actions of predatory males. And going into a women's toilet to experience "euphoria " is the action of a predatory male.

I am very sorry if butch lesbians are experiencing an increase in this. As always, lesbians are often the ones who suffer from TRA bullshit.

@girlmom21

I've just googled Eloise Stonborough and I don't believe for a second she gets challenged as often as she claims. I have a basis for that assumption - her appearance. What's your basis for assuming this anonymous woman is a liar?

I agree She looks like a woman in the photos I could see of her. No idea why anyone would challenge her going into a women’s toilet, especially since it’s usually even easier to know someone’s sex in person

@girlmom21

So no, I don't believe any of what is claimed.

You seem to not believe anything that actual, normal, every day people are saying but believing everything one poster-woman says because it fits your agenda. It's very strange.

What 'actual, normal, everyday' people.

Believe it or not I also live in the world. I know that if I went to the Barbican and asked where the women's bathrooms were, I would not be laughed at.

It is just a nonsense to credibly think I would.

Now, if I went in and made a big deal of how awful gender neutral toilets are and made a show of demanding where the womens toilets were, might I get an eye roll? Sure. Probably deservedly so if I'm just engaging in some gender critical grandstanding.

But just asking where any of the five womens toilets in the building are? Nah, no one's going to laugh in my face for asking that. Didn't happen.

But the implication that there aren't any women's toilets - both by Lucy Allen and by the GB News presenter - did happen. And the implication was a false one.

@girlmom21

I've just googled Eloise Stonborough and I don't believe for a second she gets challenged as often as she claims. I have a basis for that assumption - her appearance. What's your basis for assuming this anonymous woman is a liar?

I live in the world and have never once had someone laugh at me if I've asked where the women's toilet is.

But good job deciding Eloise Stonborough is a liar based on how she looks.

You know but you haven't actually tried ?

That's a great skill - knowing things without evidence. Perhaps you couple apply that skill to other problems - so you know how to stop the war on Ukraine for example ?

@girlmom21

I've just googled Eloise Stonborough and I don't believe for a second she gets challenged as often as she claims. I have a basis for that assumption - her appearance. What's your basis for assuming this anonymous woman is a liar?

Oh, and because I've been to the Barbican and its not nearly as difficult as this person seems to think to find a women's bathroom, which leads me to conclude they are being disingenuous.

@LittleMyTopKnot

I still don’t really get this.

So basically the problem is that someone allegedly is lying in a tweet (About being laughed at and not directed properly)?

But why can’t the women’s toilets be close to the other toilets? Flooding issues are common in menopausal women (urgent need of toilets) and my 12-year old daughter sometimes has flooding issues too. She would be even more mortified to share a toilet with men. Are women’s toilets available easily or not?

Why is the issues that some random person may or may not be lying instead of making sure that there are sufficient toilets for everyone? Isn’t that what that MP (who I never heard of) was trying to do?

This thread is bonkers. People lie on Twitter the whole time.

Womens toilets are very easy to access in the Barbican.

There are womens toilets on every floor, and two on the first floor.

What 'actual, normal, everyday' people.

Every single person here who doesn't share your opinion...

But good job deciding Eloise Stonborough is a liar based on how she looks.

She said she's ostracised because of her looks so of course I'm going to judge her based on her looks. It's literally what she claims to be an issue.

@mudgetastic

What about none lesbian butch women ? Isn't it the lesbianism irrelevant ?

Sure, but it disproportionately affects lesbians since lesbians, and probably bi and other queer women, are more likely, on average, to be gender non-conforming than straight women.

Of course not all lesbians are GNC. Not all GNC people are lesbians. I'm not claiming it is only lesbians impacted by gender policing in bathrooms. But the examples I am aware of is of lesbians being impacted.

@girlmom21

What 'actual, normal, everyday' people.

Every single person here who doesn't share your opinion...

I see.

And in what way are those who do share my opinion not 'actual, normal, everyday' people?

Is that true? Why should lesbians be more likely to be gender none Conforming ?

Does being gender none conforming affect how you look? Your physique ?

A row of single cubicles leading directly off the corridor, each containing a sink, would solve this, and end the arguments. No one could possibly be at risk this way.

Get rid of urinals altogether as the space can be better used for everyone’s benefit, not just the benefit of some. Also evidence is the urinal area is not safe for young boys or gender non conforming males.

Job done.

Yes, men will have to learn not to wee on the seats or be disgusting but that can surely be achieved?

When I was last there, they had changed the men's and the women's to both be gender neutral. It was busy and men were all going into the old men's and women into the old women's. Except for the men who inadvertently went to the women because they hadn't cottoned on to what was happening. They then came out pretty quickly once they realised it was actually a woman's toilet. No women went into the old men's that I saw, I presume because they didn't want an eyeful at the urinals. I used the old women's as I made a calculated risk assessment that it was sorting itself into men's and women's anyway and it was very busy. Safety in numbers. But I have not and would not go back again. It was not clear to me that there were women's toilet anywhere. If there were, they should have clearly been signposted from where I was as I was not comfortable using the mixed sex toilets.

@TeaKlaxon there are very few posters here who agree with you. They are also normal, every day people.

But you're not referring to the posters who agree with you when you're telling people they're wrong. You're referring to a woman who looks like a woman who claims that she gets regular abuse in women's toilets who has no skin in the game on this thread.

I think the pertinent question re the butch lesbian thing is: Why, when discussing whether women should be allowed to have single sex spaces, would any lesbian, or any other woman for that matter, bring up the fact that they are challenged due to their masculine presentation when using women only toilets? They are women, so should be welcome in female only spaces by default, so it’s not relevant in any way shape or form to the topic under discussion.“What butch lesbians have to do with the presence or absence of female only toilets in any given venue I don’t know, other than The fact that if no female only toilets are available, those masculine presenting women don’t have any female only toilets to use either.

The fact is that their is a certain group of people who like to make out that masculine presenting women are being excluded because they would like people to think masculine presenting women are like men, to reinforce the fact that they think women should not be allowed spaces that don’t include men, because if you exclude men, by there logic, then you are also excluding masculine presenting women, because in their minds masculine presenting women are like men, or at least not like women.

Oh, and because I've been to the Barbican and its not nearly as difficult as this person seems to think to find a women's bathroom, which leads me to conclude they are being disingenuous.

So because you've never got lost there, you're going to completely ignore the testimony of the many posters on this thread that they did get lost and say that it never happens?

A woman goes up to the row of three toilet doors. The signs (in order, as per the photograph) are "gender neutral", "disabled", and "men's". She looks around and thinks "all the other ones are here, so where are the women's? I'll ask someone"

She finds an usher and asks "where are the women's toilets? I can't use gender-neutral ones." The usher laughs at this.

The obvious conclusion from the usher's reaction is that asking for the women's toilets is a silly question. On the one hand that could be because the location was obvious (in which case the usher would then give directions), on the other hand it could be that women's toilets are so last year. It would not be unreasonable to then assume that there were none.

Gender neutral doesn't have to mean mixed sex

It coiukd equally mean single sex any gender surely?