‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

[DameHelena]

What does one say to this argument? I’m instinctively sceptical but I don’t know if I’m right to be.

Are you saying that only passing transwomen should use women's spaces?

Once again I note how much stock certain people place in appearances. It's a stark difference from 'it's who they are inside' that's so important.

I've never knowingly shared a womans space with a trans woman.

I've never knowingly ever seen a trans woman in a womans toilet.

I dont know anyone who has.

So maybe this trope that it was just a few transsexuals, but now its different, doesnt actually hold up at all.

Anecdotally I'm sure people will have lots of stories for these forums, but every woman knows, her use of womens spaces hasnt really changed.

How I approach using female spaces with my daughter in terms of how I assess risk for her and her steps towards independence has absolutely changed.

@OutlookStalking

Hmmm how much of this "asking about random womans lipsticknshade" etc really happens in womans loos ? Never happens to me!

About as often as women having pillow fights in short nighties at sleepovers

Yes, a small number of transsexuals used women's spaces in past years. We knew. We always know. Women are hard wired to spot men. For their own safety. We never say anything though. Because of female socialisation. So no doubt some of these people assume they pass.

No-one ever FUCKING ASKED US, is what I said.

Given a fair few women pause for thought, that has.

Yes now we have to make a fucking risk assessment when we use toilets with our children because any bearded cunt can say he’s a layyydeeeee and if we complain we are bigots/guilty of hate crimes.

So the situation has changed somewhat.

Has this thread gone. I can see it in my mumsnet..

@VampireMoney

My best friend is a transwoman. You'd walk past her in the loos and never even know she's trans. You might even compliment her on her beautiful hair or her outfit or ask where she got her shoes. She might say she loves your lipstick shade. And you'd go on with your day not knowing you'd spoken to a transwoman.

Get. A. Grip.

I've never done this in a public toilet.

Is this from the same handbook where women share tampons with strangers and teenage girls have giddy sleepover pillow fights?

About as often as women having pillow fights in short nighties at sleepovers

Ha great minds @Hoppinggreen

As many people have said, this wasn't really an issue or a battleground when trans just meant transsexual. Now with self-ID it can mean anything, and every day we are reminded of men (fully bearded men) who demand to be treated as women.

Transsexual people are losing rights at the hands of the trans rights lobby.

Reading this thread it sounds like trans women in female toilets seem to cause one of the four fear responses: fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. These processes happen automatically in people and are instinctive. Interesting that not all women feel this way obviously, but a great many do. Ive always related the fear responses to a degree of PTSD, I would guess a great many of us have either witnessed or personally experienced a degree of abusive behaviour from men. Males doing something you think they shouldn't be doing particularly with a sexual element can be frightening and triggering.

I've never knowingly shared a womans space with a trans woman.

I have.

I've never knowingly ever seen a trans woman in a womans toilet.

I have.

I dont know anyone who has.

Depends where you live and whether you know many people.

So maybe this trope that it was just a few transsexuals, but now its different, doesnt actually hold up at all.

Nah. Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean other people haven't. Clearly they have. I certainly have.

Anecdotally I'm sure people will have lots of stories for these forums, but every woman knows, her use of womens spaces hasnt really changed.

Although, actually, it has changed.

I think it’s definitely changed for me. I used to, in an absolute emergency ask women if ds and I could use the ladies. I can’t imagine ever doing that now. I wouldn’t want to normalise behaviour I do not condone.

No males were in brownies, refuges, school toilets etc

@Aretina

So what if they have? It doesn't make it right.

They never asked us if we minded. And I do mind, very much. But would I compromise my safety and confront them? No.

Do they read my lack of confrontation as acceptance? Probably, if they even care what we think.

This sums my thoughts up perfectly

@ZaraSizeMedium

In fact that reads exactly like a male fantasy of the conversations women have in toilets

Doesn’t it just!

This.

I've spent a lot of time in alternative bars over the last thirty years. I've never been in a bathroom with a TW and not know they were a TW.

I never minded before because I assumed they were gay men.

The transvestites I knew didn't use the women's toilets.

"Passing" is a bit of a subjective word imo. I've never met a TW who looked like a real woman. It didn't mean they weren't aesthetically interesting looking. They just didn't "pass". If they be looked the part from a distance they didn't close up. And then the voice...

Anyway - gay tw were never an issue for me.

Straight men with a fetish for womens clothing and spaces are.

I’m laughing at the lipstick chat honestly what on Earth?

Women at the knicker factory objecting to Hayley Cropper using the women's toilets was in fact a subplot in Coronation Street.

The women objecting (I think it was led by Leanne Battersby's mum) were portrayed as bigoted, and ignorant, and Hayley was tiny and vulnerable.

If those episodes had been broadcast using an actual male transitioner instead of a female actress, they'd have had a very different effect on viewers.

@SunbowRainshine31

I've never knowingly shared a womans space with a trans woman.

I've never knowingly ever seen a trans woman in a womans toilet.

I dont know anyone who has.

So maybe this trope that it was just a few transsexuals, but now its different, doesnt actually hold up at all.

Anecdotally I'm sure people will have lots of stories for these forums, but every woman knows, her use of womens spaces hasnt really changed.

This isn't true. My daughter has uti's from not feeling safe in the gender neutral toilets at school because she feels anxious going to the loo with a boy in the next cubicle. She has to wash her hands at shared sinks and is nervous about blood when she has her period. The boys snigger and laugh at the girls. They piss on the seats and the floor.

Speak for yourself but don't presume to open up women and girls spaces and endanger our daughters.

It is a common occurrence in our local city. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. But I understand it maybe an issue for other women and I can't ignore their concerns.

@VampireMoney

My best friend is a transwoman. You'd walk past her in the loos and never even know she's trans. You might even compliment her on her beautiful hair or her outfit or ask where she got her shoes. She might say she loves your lipstick shade. And you'd go on with your day not knowing you'd spoken to a transwoman.

Get. A. Grip.

That sounds like a man’s view of what women do in the toilets.

@VampireMoney

My best friend is a transwoman. You'd walk past her in the loos and never even know she's trans. You might even compliment her on her beautiful hair or her outfit or ask where she got her shoes. She might say she loves your lipstick shade. And you'd go on with your day not knowing you'd spoken to a transwoman.

Get. A. Grip.

Are you from the 1950's?

I’ve spotted men in women’s toilets for years. I felt mildly embarrassed for them but did my best to get in and out as quickly as possible. Nobody ever asked if we minded, just like everything else. Now that we’re under siege, and I’m older and less of a pushover, I’m done with it. So yeah, we notice. It’s obvious.