‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

[DameHelena]

What does one say to this argument? I’m instinctively sceptical but I don’t know if I’m right to be.

I have no doubt that the individual in the clip below (at 3.57 to about 4.30) thought that he was indistinguishable from a woman and that if he went into a woman's space and wasn't challenged it would affirm that self view. I feel a little sorry for him, but I don't want him in my space.

I don't want men in women's spaces, especially the ones who have the attitude of 'I don't care what you want, I want to come into this space and you can't stop me!

@Lovelyricepudding

No transwoman has ever used female single sex spaces. The most they can ever do is destroy female single sex spaces by making them mixed sex. And when they do this women in that space always change their behaviour: averting eyes, exiting as fast as they feel.they can without drawing attention to themselves, or trying to lessen the risk by appearing friendly. Women always change their behaviour when transwomen enter a women's space and make it mixed sex.

This.

We always know.

In a quiet street last year, a transwoman came out of a hotel & asked my opinion of their hair colour.

A moment later they caught up with me to chat about how it looked from the back & ask which way I was going.

Of COURSE I bloody smiled, nodded & complimented before making an excuse & hurrying off. This person was a foot taller than me & there was nobody else around.

That was not validation or acceptance or ‘not noticing’. That was plain self-preservation.

Can anyone remember when they asked us if we minded? Because I seem to have missed it.

It has always been very rare. The GRA estimated (based on actual research, what a novelty) that about 4000 people would apply for GRCs, mostly MtF, and so it turned out. - across the entire UK. Not many more than that without a GRC would be accessing women’s spaces and the crucial factor is that women have always been able to challenge anyone perceived to be male. There are a lot more than 4000 men trying to access women’s spaces across the UK ~and~ women are being bullied into not challenging it on pain of being accused of a hate crime

In fact that reads exactly like a male fantasy of the conversations women have in toilets

You forgot that women apparently always ask each other for a tampon.

@VampireMoney

My best friend is a transwoman. You'd walk past her in the loos and never even know she's trans. You might even compliment her on her beautiful hair or her outfit or ask where she got her shoes. She might say she loves your lipstick shade. And you'd go on with your day not knowing you'd spoken to a transwoman.

Get. A. Grip.

So the test to work out if it is a transwoman or not, is that women feel compelled to ask transwomen questions they would never dream of asking actual women?

What are you on?

You'd walk past her in the loos and never even know she's trans. You might even compliment her on her beautiful hair or her outfit or ask where she got her shoes. She might say she loves your lipstick shade. And you'd go on with your day not knowing you'd spoken to a transwoman.
.

Oops, cut off my reply:

What an odd and disturbing fantasy world some people live in.

Many years ago I was in the changing rooms at a spa. Me and another woman only ones in there. A trans woman came in and began changing. I found myself fiddling around, in my locker, deeply uncomfortable with the idea of getting changed into my swimming stuff. After they left, the other woman looked at me. She had also delayed changing. We both gave a nervous laugh and agreed that the male pattern baldness rather gave it away.... (if we were to ignore the height, shoulders, walk, hands, feet, Adam's apple..).

I have had the ‘I love your lipstick’ conversation. Once. 30 years ago. It’s stuck in my mind because it was so unusual.

I’ve also been told I had no place in the woman’s toilets in a pub in Brighton about 20 years ago. This was to me, a woman, from a trans woman. I had said nothing to her.

@VampireMoney

My best friend is a transwoman. You'd walk past her in the loos and never even know she's trans. You might even compliment her on her beautiful hair or her outfit or ask where she got her shoes. She might say she loves your lipstick shade. And you'd go on with your day not knowing you'd spoken to a transwoman.

Get. A. Grip.

Why is it always about the nails, the hair, the clothes, the shoes, the fucking bonding over lipstick.

I just want to pee in peace without any males trying to make me role-play their idea of femininity

Women, always talking to strangers about hair and lipstick and shoes. How else would we know we’re women?

Women go into loos and use them, we don't strike up conversations on clothing and make up as that's weird. I guess a man wouldn't know that.

We can all spot male bodies though, height, shoulders, Adam's apple, hands, feet, balding, chin, jawline, beards.

Smell

@DownWhichOfLate

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=5274886802531695&id=470911516262605&m_entstream_source=timeline

This came up on my Facebook feed. You can tell from the way they walk (just after 1 minute in). Some things you just can’t change. Us women do know.

The usual parent, who disapproved of his insufficiently masculine child. Has anyone ever seen a male to female transition story that didn’t involve a homophobic or narrow-minded parent?

Now any knobber with a beard can just say the magic words of 'i am a woman' and can feel entitled to entering womens spaces. They dont even have to bother trying to appear like a woman. This is open acces for predators, and disruptive hateful men...this is new. This is bad.

Well we'd always notice if someone started chatting about lipstick since that's not what we do at all.

How on one hand have we been peeing next to them for years without noticing but then simultaneously having conversations about shoes and lipstick which would be extremely memorable on account of being out of the ordinary so we would indeed notice.

Which is it cos it can't be both 🤔

Whenever I've chatted with women in toilets, it's been in the queue while waiting. Always about the line or the event we're at, often about the lack of line for the men. Never about shoes, hair or lipstick.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

In fact that reads exactly like a male fantasy of the conversations women have in toilets

You forgot that women apparently always ask each other for a tampon.

I was actually asked if I had a tampon in the loos at a gig in Berlin the other year. Other than at school, I think that was the only time in my life that I've experienced it

I am ex army. How would this work in The army or any military scenario?

We were sex segregated for sleeping and women had lower physical targets than men and pet biology we are on the back foot.

If I saw a woman in the toilets who was wearing something by Angela Wild, Kellie-Jay Keen, FiLiA, Lily Maynard, Birdy Rose etc I’d admire it. For obvious reasons. But otherwise, commenting on a stranger’s appearance would just be weird.

(And someone commenting on my lipstick shade would be even weirder because I never wear any.)

A few people with body dysmorphia quietly going about their business probably caused few problems.

Any bloke that fancies announcing he's trans and using it to muscle into any female space and doing so loudly and often aggressively, or with malicious intent simply because he can - different scenario. What sacredfeminina said.

Yeah I totally don't buy this as an argument for it being across the board ok.

The fact is that in the past, there were so few transexuals that many people would never have actually encountered a situation where they shared spaces.Additionally, they were vetted by doctors as non-dangerous, and most were gay males with no sexual interest in women who often had had surgery.

And what you did not see was such people being in women's prisons, or showers in women's change rooms (or even women's change rooms.)

The situation is totally different now, given that it seems to mean any tom dick or harry is allowed to sit around naked with women and girls in a nude spa and if the women complain they will be told "shut up you bigots", they are often heterosexual males with their genitalia fully intact, have no vetting in terms of disturbing or predatory or false pretenses, and it's all being used as a wedge to justify these male people being in women's prisons, hospital wards, etc. Plus there are far greater numbers.

Gender activism has changed the situation so much that the possibility of the kind of grace that was extended previously is now not only rejected by many women, it's dangerous.

Seeing as TW have been using women's spaces since forever and no one has ever noticed and all women have been fine about it (*)
Then why the need for GRA reform at all? In fact, why the need for transactivism at all? If everything's already sorted and hunky dory?

(*) Gender ideology myth number 12