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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Posie Parker on Fox News

162 replies

FiftyWaysToWinInDenver · 25/03/2022 18:23

www.instagram.com/tv/Cbd5e6WISdd/?utm_medium=copy_link

Apologies if this has been shared already. I haven’t watched Fox or Tucker Carlson before - I know they are biased obviously - but he did seem to grasp the wider problem of the ideology in terms of making people lie and affecting how you think being dangerous etc.

OP posts:
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Pallisers · 29/03/2022 00:27

So what are the “approved” news organisations where it’s acceptable for people to air their concerns without fear of association with such extremes and sexism?

The short answer is Not Fox News. I would really welcome someone like PP being given a platform on the Wall Street Journal for example. I don't agree with many of their editorial positions etc but I respect the WSJ as a legitimate news site. That would be a real coup.

It would be nice to think Posie got the messages out - but out where? She got them out to an echo chamber of people who watch Fox News. And she managed to associate her name and her voice with extreme irrational right wing racist extremists. lovely for the cause.

I suspect many of those commentating on this thread don't live in the US and don't understand what Fox News actually is. Or do and agree with them.

MangyInseam · 29/03/2022 00:42

it means accepting it as a legitimate source of news rather than the racist sexist extreme right wing piece of shit that it is.

Some of what they put on is quite bad, and some of it is pretty standard.

No one has to accept, or not accept, all of it just because it's on Fox News. Or for that matter being interviewed by TC. Any more than you accept or not accept everything from any other network.

MangyInseam · 29/03/2022 00:44

I suspect many of those commentating on this thread don't live in the US and don't understand what Fox News actually is. Or do and agree with them.

Hmm
Noreaster · 29/03/2022 00:52

I suspect many of those commentating on this thread don't live in the US and don't understand what Fox News actually is. Or do and agree with them.

I'm in the US. I'm very definitely not a fan of Fox News. What would you have her do though? CNN or MSNBC won't be having her on any time soon. They won't be calling Kara Dansky either.

MangyInseam · 29/03/2022 03:20

It's very characteristic of any television news to be very affected by what excites the viewer, which means the information in television news is relatively distorted at the best of times compared to print (though not necessarily the internet.) It's the nature of the medium.

Pallisers · 29/03/2022 03:29

What would I have her do? Whatever she wants. Posie Parker can do what she wants and can speak where she wants. Absolutely. and if it helps the cause great. I don't have to like the fact that she is appearing on Fox News.

Why am I being critisized for saying I won't watch Fox News no matter what is on the channel? Look up Fox News and you will see why I feel this way. or not.

It isn't a great new thing that a GC person is on Fox News. They are all over this GC or rather anti-trans thing in the case of Fox. No one who isn't in the Fox News spiral will listen or care. This is shouting into a right wing echo chamber. Nothing to celebrate

NecessaryScene · 29/03/2022 07:01

No one who isn't in the Fox News spiral will listen or care.

I seem to recall seeing the stat the other day that Fox News' viewing figures are higher among Democratic voters than NBC.

Ah, here we go:

twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1489258034865971205

It seems to me that those in the US who refuse to watch Fox might be the ones in the echo chamber... Getting much visibility of the attack on women's rights elsewhere? Hmm

After all, other channels aren't letting troublemakers like Kara Dansky or Posie Parker on.

Or Glenn Greenwald there, who continually justifies his appearances on Tucker Carlson with his view it's the best way to get information out to the most diverse audience who may be unaware of an issue - precisely the opposite of "shouting into an echo chamber".

From those stats, it seems like going on Fox is actually a great way to reach the viewers of other channels, most of whom don't only watch them.

I don't have any love for Fox, but I do have scorn for the others - as far as I can tell anyone relying on US mainstream TV but not watching Fox too is going to be missing a hell of a lot of the picture, due to the other networks' incredibly studied blind spots.

Including the blind spot of thinking that Fox is only reaching a "right-wing echo chamber"

Now, as you can see in the third tweet, there is obviously a huge ideological split. But that data it can be reconciled with the first poll - the third one really exaggerates it because it's just plotting "people who name each as their main source of news", not all viewers.

That sort of open-ended question is just inviting some sort of tribal declaration, so no decent Democratic voter is going to want to say "Fox News" to that, even if they are watching it...

"93% of people who cite Fox News as their main source of news are Republicans" is not the same statement as "93% of people who watch Fox News are Republicans".

Posie is reaching a hell of a lot of Democrats and independents by appearing on Tucker Carlson.

Posie Parker on Fox News
Posie Parker on Fox News
Posie Parker on Fox News
lovelyweathertoday · 29/03/2022 07:14

Posie Parker can do what she wants and can speak where she wants.

Have you got any idea of the number of places she has been banned from? It even includes paying for posters at Edinburgh train station after her "I ❤️ JK Rowling" as they "breached guidelines".

She's banned from here because she simply calls men men.

As she is from Twitter.

She can't speak "where she wants" so she speaks anywhere she can.

ClafoutisSurprise · 29/03/2022 07:41

@Pallisers - I’m late to this thread, and just wanted to say that I agree with everything you’ve said. Appearances like this further entrench the idea that GC feminism is part of a package of illiberal, bigoted views, and I cringe every time I see a thread like this.

Also can’t stand the idea that the likes of Fox News are the right wing equivalent of the Guardian. I’ve seen claims along those lines said of outlets like Breitbart. No, I’ll read something like the Telegraph for balance, thanks. I don’t see the value in poor quality extremist rubbish and do see an awful lot of harm.

Enmeshing the GC position in the left-right culture wars is an absolute disaster.

NotBadConsidering · 29/03/2022 07:49

The Guardian IS the left wing equivalent of Fox News. They outright lie about trans issues, (there are multiple examples) carefully control the narrative on this issue - don’t allow comments, moderate gender critical comments, practise censorship - and are following a propagandist agenda on this issue rather than reporting the facts. This is exactly what Fox News does.

NotBadConsidering · 29/03/2022 07:50

The only difference is the Guardian does it with an air of moral superiority, whereas it’s pretty clear Fox News does it for the money.

ClafoutisSurprise · 29/03/2022 08:02

I think the Guardian has let itself down very badly over this issue - as have other news outlets - and I now read everything in it with a far more critical eye (no bad thing). It has quite rightly lost readers over it, but it also produces a lot of quality journalism. The same cannot be said of Fox.

NotBadConsidering · 29/03/2022 08:20

Fox News covered the Loudoun County rape case. And the true events of Wi Spa. And Jessica Yaniv. And report accurately on Lia Thomas currently.

SamphiretheStickerist · 29/03/2022 08:48

@NotBadConsidering

Fox News covered the Loudoun County rape case. And the true events of Wi Spa. And Jessica Yaniv. And report accurately on Lia Thomas currently.
Yep! Weird when it is the 'less worthy' news channels that hold the more moral line on any topic, isn't it? But here they are, doing just that!
Natfemale · 29/03/2022 08:50

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OvaHere · 29/03/2022 09:00

It has quite rightly lost readers over it, but it also produces a lot of quality journalism.

Are we sure about that?

Because first they lied over Cologne then they've lied consistently over this issue for years, removing any trace of dissent from their comment sections. So after a while you do start to wonder what else they're lying about that you just haven't picked up on.

None of this does anything for confidence in journalistic integrity.

Natfemale · 29/03/2022 09:01

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NecessaryScene · 29/03/2022 09:10

Personally I find him intelligent, unbiased and quite often quite humorous- but then I’m not given to calling people I have never met piece of shit’.

That's the main disconnect for me - I see lots of people so incredibly emotionally invested in saying how horrible people like Tucker Carlson or Joe Rogan are, and from where I'm sitting, I can see who seems more liberal and open-minded.

Maybe I'm missing something somewhere, but I can see who's spitting venom and calling names and apparently motivated by hatred, and it's not them. (Same sort of vibe as watching TRAs yelling outside a feminist meeting, calling the women hateful...)

Couple of interesting discussions here around this sort of area with Glenn Loury agonising about going on Tucker Carlson, discussing it with John McWhorter, who was not a fan - "I don't do Fox".

McWhorter reasoned that he doesn't do it because he's specifically trying to reach people who pride themselves on "not watching Fox", like previous posters.

...in the world that I live in where a critical mass of educated liberal and left people think that way, it scotches my message to be seen on those shows, because what I'm trying to do is talk to the people who are running these schools, talk to the people sitting on the fence who are thinking they're supposed to listen to Ibram Kendi because he has dreadlocks, but they know that Coleman Hughes makes sense. The kind of person who could go the right way if they just heard the right ideas.

That person - one out of two of those people think that you suck the minute you have ever been on a set with Tucker Carlson. And so as far as I'm concerned in the time that i have left, I would rather not do that.

And so, I feel bad sometimes. The Fox bookers try to get me. Just this week I finally said to one of them, "you know what, I don't do Fox." I feel bad saying that because it's not fair. I mean there are some terrible things said on Fox News, and I've been repulsed by how they approach the Trump phenomenon in particular. But the idea that everybody who works for fox news is a moron or an idiot or malevolent is absurd. But at this point if I want to reach a certain kind of person, I can't have that stink on me.

And honestly if I may, you might be doing that to yourself. So it depends on who you want to convince. And the thing is, the people on the Fox side don't need convincing. It's the people in Park Slope. And I openly admit that if the people in Park Slope think that you suck if you are anywhere near Hannity but that you're somebody to contend with if you talk to Chris Hayes i'm going to talk to Chris Hayes especially because it's more fun to talk to Chris Hayes because he's going to push back.

I don't think that logic applies so much to Posie - we're more at the consciousness-raising thing here. She's trying to reach the general public.

Glenn Loury did go on in the end - post-discussion:

knittingaddict · 29/03/2022 09:59

@Pallisers

Tucker Carlson is a racist piece of shit and his - and the republicans - jumping on the bandwagon of gender criticism has absolutely nothing to do with respect for women or concern about women's rights. They hate women. The question asked of Judge Brown Jackson was a complete "gotcha" question that had nothing to do with her fitness for the position. The senate hearing was obscenely racist. And nothing could persuade me to click on a Fox News link - nothing Tucker Carlson says is worth a watch. He is an offence to humanity and no friend of women.
This.

I find it upsetting that some people are "on our side" when they have an agenda that is nothing to do with women's rights or protecting our spaces. These are people I wouldn't associate with or touch with a ten foot barge pole. I don't want them avocating for women at all.

knittingaddict · 29/03/2022 10:07

[quote ClafoutisSurprise]@Pallisers - I’m late to this thread, and just wanted to say that I agree with everything you’ve said. Appearances like this further entrench the idea that GC feminism is part of a package of illiberal, bigoted views, and I cringe every time I see a thread like this.

Also can’t stand the idea that the likes of Fox News are the right wing equivalent of the Guardian. I’ve seen claims along those lines said of outlets like Breitbart. No, I’ll read something like the Telegraph for balance, thanks. I don’t see the value in poor quality extremist rubbish and do see an awful lot of harm.

Enmeshing the GC position in the left-right culture wars is an absolute disaster.[/quote]
Agree with all of this too.

Honestly if women are going to align themselves with Fox News and people like Tucker Carlson then I just can't do it. It's really not the positive that some people think it is. Thanks, but no thanks.

knittingaddict · 29/03/2022 10:18

This is going to make it even harder for me to persuade my left leaning daughter that being gender critical isn't because I'm a right wing bigot.

I've become more left leaning myself over the last few years and I'm angry that it's the left who are blinded by trans ideology at the moment. I can tolerate the Conservatives being on the right side of history here, but right wing conservative America? Nope, can't do that.

We need to think carefully about who are bed fellows are here and not accept them all at any cost because we think they agree with us. They might agree, but not for a reason that I find acceptable.

NonnyMouse1337 · 29/03/2022 10:35

Anyone who dismisses the plight of women in prison being housed with violent sex offenders as 'right wing bigotry' demonstrates their own character and ethical values - or rather the lack of them.

Fairislefandango · 29/03/2022 10:38

Surely it's better that everyone hears and believes the truth, whether or not they are people who align with your political stance or views on other things? If the message is going to get out to everybody, it needs to be in the media that everybody consumes, not just the media you approve of.

NotBadConsidering · 29/03/2022 11:23

Honestly it’s such a trite pathetic point that gets made all the time whenever the right wing media, particularly American, is involved in this debate.

“Oh no! Can’t possibly associate with those nasty people [holds nose]”

What this actually is is your own intolerance. You can’t possibly accept the idea that you might agree with people who are ideologically different to you and as such decide to avoid at all costs. The reason this issue is agreed upon across the political spectrum is precisely why you should be proud to be in agreement. It is precisely what you should tell your daughter: that this is position of truth, logic and science. People from all sides - including most of the Left it needs to be said - agree with Tucker Carlson and his ilk because it’s the bloody truth! Men cannot be women, Lia Thomas should not be swimming against women, you can’t change sex, Yaniv is a predator, the Loudoun rape and Wi Spa cases actually happened. It’s truth!

You tell your daughter that you’re not “aligning” with any political side, it’s just that sensible, logical, not-in-the-cult people of all political persuasions can see through the bullshit. Tell your daughter that bullshit detectors aren’t political.

I am not, and nor is Posie, and nor is anyone else on this thread “aligning” themselves with Tucker Carlson. What is actually happening is lots of different people are aligning themselves with the idea that the whole ideology is nonsense. They are not “on our side”; we are not taking sides, it’s just we all end up on the same side because it’s the only place to end up if you’re not a fucking idiot.

I sometimes wonder, if people who can’t abide the American Right so much, wouldn’t be happier if they were totally capitulated TWAW to make it easier to cope with their mental discomfort.

And no one is accepting this agreement “at all costs”; I am perfectly capable of saying “we agree on this, but not that, and that idea I distinctly oppose.” It’s not hard. It’s called being a grown up. Agreement does not imply blanket approval of all of that person’s positions. Despite this, however, blanket approval is often inferred by observers if anyone shows signs of agreement: “you agree with Tucker Carlson on this? You must also want to overthrow the US government and are racist towards black women who want to be on the Supreme Court.” It’s so utterly childish and the main way debate is silenced.

The majority of the conservative American right are not monsters, you know. They’re just normal people with different views who know a man in the pool with women when they see one, and know a boy raping a girl in school toilets shouldn’t be covered up for the sake of identity.

The single biggest step I took personally was to stop worrying about whether people think I am a bigot. It’s such a weight off your shoulders when you stop giving a fuck about whether you’re on the “right” side, or socially acceptable side, and just be comfortable you’re on the side of truth, which wears many political colours. Just watch the clip FFS. No one will know, you won’t turn into a raving crackpot Trumpian racist, the world won’t explode Hmm. And if you somehow (whisper it quietly) agree with Posie or aren’t horrified by Carlson, be comforted in the fact that you’re still you and watching one video isn’t going to change you.

MalagaNights · 29/03/2022 12:29

100% @NotBadConsidering.

All this 'I will not aligned with Tucker Carlson.'

Tough. You do align with Tucker Carlson and there's nothing you can do about it.
Except wring your hands and pretend it's not true if you continue to state how much you hate Tucker Carlson.

And if you were prepared to think seriously about that at all it should challenge the very tribal boundaries you operate within.
In fact it should shatter them.

Doesn't mean you have to like Tucker Carlson or agree with him on anything except this, but it should make you realise the binary of right wing bad/ left wing good is flawed and dangerous.

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