Boris has nailed colours to mast

[Ridcully82]

On gender transition at PMQs:" biology overwhelmingly important", preceded by urging respect for those feeling they need to transition. Sounded calm, respectful,and kinda where we were on course before the TRA actions.

I think in reality most UK citizens are closer to central than far left or right.
Labour will hopefully find this to their cost. Just hope conservatives have the sense to adapt.

@Fluffymule

So much anger directed at women here, who are stating their frustration and anger when faced with perhaps their best fit political party betraying them over their defence of biological reality, women rights, children's safeguarding, privacy, dignity, sporting achievement etc.

Perhaps rather than attacking those of us considering using the remaining power we have left, by voting (or not) in a particular way, it would be better to direct that anger at the Labour politicians who are lying, lacking any integrity, and some even attacking women for their views, making us politically homeless.

Also worth considering that some—many, in fact—women are right-wing, or libertarian, or centrist, even in the absence of the trans debate.

The way that GC people are spoken to and about by TRAs is nothing new to those women because they have been spoken to and about in that way by left-wingers who consider themselves moral betters since time immemorial. They have been told that they are selfishly voting in their own interest and not considering those who are in a different position, and in the next breath that they are stupidly voting against their own interest on another issue, which is also bad. The only common denominator is that the leftist believes herself morally, superior, and believes anyone who disagrees on any topic to be a very bad person. Which ought to be a familiar position to come here, based on the events of recent years.

I'm an "out" centrist with some views that lean left and some that lean right. I'm also too old and too disagreeable to care much about what others think about my opinions. A lot of people would be surprised at how many (cowardly, in my view, but not my circus) people will quietly, privately admit that they don't agree with prevailing narratives—and not merely on the gender issue.

Fortunately, the voting booth is the most private of places.

Before the last General Election, a Labour canvasser promised me that our MP had very strong beliefs on single-sex spaces and I could trust her, but she recently backed Keir Starmer's words on women/cervixes so... no, actually I can't. If a principled Conservative candidate stood in my constituency I'd not hesitate to vote for them. I'm just looking for a candidate with principles at this stage.

@FireFlyBoogaloo

Yes I recognise that behaviour. I am afraid I used to do it. I've grown up a bit since then, but am still learning.

I am glad to hear the PM say this. Echoes of Robert Winstone?

No way on Earth would I would vote Tory with that lying, corrupt charalatan still in charge though.

I just don't understand why Labour and other parties can't see that they need to protect womens rights and not allow any Tom, DICK or Harry self-identify as a woman & invade womens safe spaces/ sports etc.

Gah, I hate Boris soooo much but now have to feel grateful for these scraps. And I am.

@SmallPrawnEnergy

Cost of living, wages, energy, house prices, overwhelmed health services + possibly climate change and any war related security issues. The majority of MN really don’t care or are in a position not to cate about most of these points. Cost of living, energy, houses prices and health services aren’t important to the rich folk here. There are folk out there who are literally scraping pennies together to feed their kids or put the heating on for an hour, this is what the rotors have done to the working class of this country. Shafted is into ruin and wreck. They don’t care. But call breastfeeding chest feeding and MN will froth and foam. It’s absolutely disgusting the lack of awareness and empathy thr vast majority of women on this site have for those struggling . They will of course say otherwise but simply put, they wouldn’t vote Tory if they did. The tori’s are simply carrying out eugenics on the poor people of this country and those voting them in are complicit

Actually I see it completely the other way around. I see this gender ideology as an exercise in class privilege. The people promoting this don't give shit about the women from disadvantaged communities who are most likely to be most harmed by this - those that end up in prisons, homeless shelters, refuges and recovery centres. The privileged with degrees care not one crap about those women, who are far distanced from their lives. The privileged never imagine themselves ending up in one of those places so care not about what happens to those who do. One of the reasons this ideology has being able to take hold is that we no longer have a class analysis: all that has been replaced by individual 'identity'.

And despite you trying to smear MNers are all rich, you only need to look at any of the many threads from people here who are really financially struggling to know that that is not true.

I think Labour are beginning to listen. I received this reply from my local Labour mp who said Labour will be upholding single-sex exemptions.

"I do not think for one moment that the tory party (Patel anyone?) give a furry fuck about women's rights, or any kind of equality. If people fall for that, then so be it."

Neither do I. But I know for certain that Labour don't either so that's on them to put forward a platform that makes them electable. On this, Starmer is just Corbyn with a smarter suit.

Excellent post @FireFlyBoogaloo

It's hilarious on these threads how often 'we' and 'us' are used as if women only vote labour.

Lots of women voted Tory long before the labour party got overun by its gender identity politics feelings over facts stance.

You can post Tory hating bile here confident in your opinion they are The Baddies.

But remember lots of people who are TWAW now think that about you, they're just as confident you are The Baddie.

If this doesn't give people pause in their utter conviction in Baddies and Goodies in politics I'm not sure anything could.

Maybe all the people here despairing that voters are choosing to vote Tory instead of Labour, or not even vote at all - maybe you should try contacting the Labour Party and let them know that their strategy of identity politics isn't working?

They haven't listened to GC voices, maybe they'd listen to purer ones.

I did contact my local MP - a shadow minister. He just came back with bullshit.

I just don't understand why Labour and other parties can't see that they need to protect womens rights and not allow any Tom, DICK or Harry self-identify as a woman & invade womens safe spaces/ sports etc

Its so obvious that it does that I think the truth must be that they do realise but just don't care. Or at least they don't care enough to risk being called names. They care more about their 'progressive' identity than about vulnerable women. Its self interest basically.

And Labour abandoned any sort of class analysis a long time ago, let alone not having a feminist one, so they aren't doing a class based feminist analysis on who is most losing out by this gender ideology.

So they just don't care.

It's the definition of rock and a hard place.
I loathe this government and its 'leader'. His lies. His parties. His equating Ukraine to Brexit. His fucking up in Iran and getting Nazanin Z-R put away for six years. His not providing holiday lunches for children. His mismanagement of Covid. I could go on and on.
But Labour are TWAW. The Lib Dems and Greens are equally shite.
I really really don't know who I'll vote for from now on.
I've written to my MP about Lia Thomas and the wider issues of women's rights. I suspect she'll come down more on my side, if only because she's a diehard Corbyn supporter. Also, round here a balloon with a face drawn on and a red rosette would get in. But I still don't know if I can vote for the party any more.

Chestfeeding?! What bollocks is this? Chests do not lactate. When you are talking about breastfeeding you are describing lactation from breasts.

The Tories will only make the divide in the country greater between the affluent and those struggling. I wouldn't vote for them on that basis. I can't believe that many of us are finding ourselves having to be grateful to them for recognising that there are biological differences between men and women. The stance of Labour & other parties is madness.

@nevercis

Johnson doesn't believe this position any more than he believes anything else he says. It's just that enough of us have made it politically expedient for him to take this line.

I don't agree with this. He might not care about the issue and the negative impact this ideology has on women and children, I can believe that. But no way does he not believe that biology is reality, because they all know this is fact. Even those Labour liars who have betrayed us know it, they are just too cowardly to admit it. (Or revelling in the opportunity to display their misogyny safe in the knowledge that the rest of their cowardly party are too afraid to speak the truth)

Actually I see it completely the other way around. I see this gender ideology as an exercise in class privilege. The people promoting this don't give shit about the women from disadvantaged communities who are most likely to be most harmed by this - those that end up in prisons, homeless shelters, refuges and recovery centres. The privileged with degrees care not one crap about those women, who are far distanced from their lives. The privileged never imagine themselves ending up in one of those places so care not about what happens to those who do.

Absolutely this.

The option to opt out of mixed sex facilites is harder to access lower down the socioeconomic hierarchy you are.

@ohfook

I think Labour are beginning to listen. I received this reply from my local Labour mp who said Labour will be upholding single-sex exemptions.

It's bullshit, though. They say they'll uphold single sex exemptions and in the next breath say transwomen are women and self ID is imperative.

@ohfook

I think Labour are beginning to listen. I received this reply from my local Labour mp who said Labour will be upholding single-sex exemptions.

That is interesting, but it is also inconsistent with their 'TWAW' stance, and it is far from clear in terms of their broader communications that the Party is prepared to get behind that. Starmer's last intervention on this sounded like 'retain single-sex exceptions in the Equality Act and let people use them if they say they are female'.

This doesn't sound like that. Good for her.

'Chestfeeding?! What bollocks is this? Chests do not lactate. When you are talking about breastfeeding you are describing lactation from breasts.'

We could call it 'nipple-feeding', or 'mammary-gland-nutrient-dispensation'.

Nothing dehumanising about that, is there?

The way that GC people are spoken to and about by TRAs is nothing new to those women because they have been spoken to and about in that way by left-wingers who consider themselves moral betters since time immemorial. They have been told that they are selfishly voting in their own interest and not considering those who are in a different position, and in the next breath that they are stupidly voting against their own interest on another issue, which is also bad. The only common denominator is that the leftist believes herself morally, superior, and believes anyone who disagrees on any topic to be a very bad person. Which ought to be a familiar position to come here, based on the events of recent years.

I would describe myself as left of center but my refusal to engage in this kind or morally superior behaviour has given me cause to question it. I recognise the behaviour you describe here and I find it appalling. I have right leaning friends who appear to be very reasonable, kind and compassionate people, strangely they don't resort to name calling, shaming or guilting me when we disagree. It's a refreshing change from the tyranny of the people I do actually agree with.

@JoodyBlue

I don't want to get the Tories out - they are the only party holding the line for women. I say that as a person who has never voted Tory before.

Same here. Never voted Tory in my life, always voted Labour. But this is too important for me as a parent of a gender questioning teen.

I will vote Tory.

Boris said what I wanted to hear.

You make a perfectly correct point @FireFlyBoogaloo and I did not mean for my post to insinuate that all posters on this topic would naturally be Labour voters if it were not for Labour’s position on GI Ideology.

I’ve had to revisit some of my own prejudices and assumptions around politics as I’ve followed this issue over the past few years. I hope I’m more open minded, considered and curious than perhaps I was previously.

@midlifecrash

He’s not to be trusted on this or anything else. But it means the damage this is doing to Labour has been noticed

I agree. Don’t think you’ve found an alliance in a Tory, they’ve no qualms about u-turning when the wind changes.