Boris has nailed colours to mast

[Ridcully82]

On gender transition at PMQs:" biology overwhelmingly important", preceded by urging respect for those feeling they need to transition. Sounded calm, respectful,and kinda where we were on course before the TRA actions.

sadly if one does not vote labour, we will definitely get tory.
Protest votes don't help our country, the growing authoritarianism, the selfish greed of the right.

I do not think for one moment that the tory party (Patel anyone?) give a furry fuck about women's rights, or any kind of equality. If people fall for that, then so be it.

Im not about to bite my nose off to spite my face.

@SmallPrawnEnergy

Cost of living, wages, energy, house prices, overwhelmed health services + possibly climate change and any war related security issues. The majority of MN really don’t care or are in a position not to cate about most of these points. Cost of living, energy, houses prices and health services aren’t important to the rich folk here. There are folk out there who are literally scraping pennies together to feed their kids or put the heating on for an hour, this is what the rotors have done to the working class of this country. Shafted is into ruin and wreck. They don’t care. But call breastfeeding chest feeding and MN will froth and foam. It’s absolutely disgusting the lack of awareness and empathy thr vast majority of women on this site have for those struggling . They will of course say otherwise but simply put, they wouldn’t vote Tory if they did. The tori’s are simply carrying out eugenics on the poor people of this country and those voting them in are complicit

You’re so far out of order it’s not funny. If you want to blame anyone blame the people who voted Tory to Get Brexit Done because that was their ticket,

@BurnDownTheDiscoHangTheDJ

Honestly, I do not get this. I can see this side of the argument on the definition of a woman but this government are:

• corrupt and corruptible,

-lead by a man who lies like most of us breathe,

-don’t want to feed hungry children in poverty during the school holidays,

-have suggested that Ukrainian refugees fleeing their war-torn country come here on the condition that they pick fruit

-and are pretending that Covid doesn’t exist now just to save the arse of their Liar in Chief (and steam rolling us all into another bad winter with the potential for deaths rising and the potential of education being disrupted).

For me and many others all of that trumps this one issue, as it should.

This.

At a time when we are seeing absolute desperate poverty and people in food banks turning down the potatoes that they can't afford to cook, please don't tell me that the Tories care about women. They care about point scoring, winning elections and looking after women who might be in a position to fund them or otherwise help them to consolidate power.

@SmallPrawnEnergy

Cost of living, wages, energy, house prices, overwhelmed health services + possibly climate change and any war related security issues. The majority of MN really don’t care or are in a position not to cate about most of these points. Cost of living, energy, houses prices and health services aren’t important to the rich folk here. There are folk out there who are literally scraping pennies together to feed their kids or put the heating on for an hour, this is what the rotors have done to the working class of this country. Shafted is into ruin and wreck. They don’t care. But call breastfeeding chest feeding and MN will froth and foam. It’s absolutely disgusting the lack of awareness and empathy thr vast majority of women on this site have for those struggling . They will of course say otherwise but simply put, they wouldn’t vote Tory if they did. The tori’s are simply carrying out eugenics on the poor people of this country and those voting them in are complicit

But many poor people don't support Labour either, the reality is that there's no party that truly represents people who are disabled, stuck in the poverty / addiction cycle or in areas with high levels of crime and few opportunities, who gives people hope that they can lead a better life than the one they were born into anymore. Labour should be focusing on getting back to their roots, this should be the time they shine. And yes I agree those scraping by often don't have the same energy to be worried about stuff like self Id; but it will absolutely affect them disproportionately so I want to vote in a way that helps protect them. I grew up in poverty, I understand what it's like to have one meal a day (and parents go without food), a sibling targeted by drug dealers because a fiver for breaking the law for them seems like winning the jackpot, I've known friends to lose parents to crime or be forced into crime and as such end up imprisoned, those who have fled abusive partners with not one penny to their names- this is an important topic.

I don't want to get the Tories out - they are the only party holding the line for women. I say that as a person who has never voted Tory before

Under the Tories, a woman raped today (should it ever get to court) will wait 3 years...
Under the Tories and their oversight of the Met, a 15 yo is strip searched, tampon removed.... for no reason whatsoever.

Then there is poverty, primarily faced up by women.

There is more than one issue facing women, having said that, Labour need to wake up and smell the coffee.

I will never vote Tory. Partly because of what they've done to women in other ways. Asylum seekers, the hostile environment. Cutting the aid budget and the FCO/DFID merger. Has caused immeasurable harm to women we promised to help. So many reasons. Even though I do like some of what they've done, and think it helps some less well off people and mobility - masters loans, abolishing massive rental agency fees - can't fool myself that the bad shit doesn't hugely outweigh the good when it comes to poor and vulnerable women in this country and elsewhere. I could never endorse that.

It feels uncomfortable feeling grateful to Truss and Johnson for their line on this. I don't want them to stay in, but I worry very much about women if Labour get in.

I won't vote Labour anymore just to "get the Tories out." They've traded on that for years, why should they get to now? I just refuse. Their towering arrogance on matters of sex and gender and the way they have thrown people under the bus are terrifying to me. I'm a lifelong Labour voter. But they've lost me completely on this. I have voted SNP in the past but won't do that again either.

I have absolutely no idea who I could vote for.

It's pure electioneering by the Tories! We should all look when voting at the full range of issues facing the UK and Johnson's crap performance over the past few years including partygate and not get hung up on one issue alone, however emotionally loaded.

@theworldhas

When it comes to election time vote for who you want. But if you think the trans issue will be anything but a marginal issue issue for the vast, vast majority of voters- male or female - you are very naive. Cost of living, wages, energy, house prices, overwhelmed health services + possibly climate change and any war related security issues. And besides, on the Trans/ Gender issue, the parties will simply say what it is they think their base/the electorate want to hear to get into office. The vast majority of them couldn’t give a shit either way.

Disagree - women will be campaigning on this issue, this time. The era of no debate has long gone.

I also want this notion of association between GC ideas and the right broken because it's bullshit, we all know it's bullshit and that this crosses the spectrum, and yet it's trotted out again and again and it makes my blood boil. Only slightly less than being told I'm being manipulated by the rich, powerful "Christian right" lobby that doesn't bloody exist here.

Whilst it might not be a deal breaker as such for the majority or perhaps they haven't heard labours view on it yet- I think more people than you'd think will take notice of it.

I think you might be right about this. I'm a member of a group where a proposal for gender neutral language was put forward recently, I was bracing myself for a difficult discussion but it was unanimously dismissed as ridiculous which really surprised me. People were using activist buzz words satirically to underline how absurd they find the whole issue. If you'd asked me beforehand I would have guessed that three quarters of the people present would know nothing about the issue but I was very wrong. Anyway it was a relief not to have to persuade anyone to reject the proposal.

...not get hung up on one issue alone, however emotionally loaded.

My reaction to being ignored, dismissed and vilfied is anger which is clearly an emotion but my position on self ID is informed by evidence, not emotion. I think you do women a disservice if you assume their voting choices are informed by emotion.

@midlifecrash

He’s not to be trusted on this or anything else. But it means the damage this is doing to Labour has been noticed

Yes. They've realised that women with votes care about biological sex.

The Women's Equality Party really needs to sort themselves out on this issue - they could get so many votes from....Women!!!

@Laniania

I also want this notion of association between GC ideas and the right broken because it's bullshit, we all know it's bullshit and that this crosses the spectrum, and yet it's trotted out again and again and it makes my blood boil. Only slightly less than being told I'm being manipulated by the rich, powerful "Christian right" lobby that doesn't bloody exist here.

This thread is a spot sample of that. Most posters here are not natural tories, but the overwhelming majority will not vote Labour now due to this issue.

@MsFogi

The Women's Equality Party really needs to sort themselves out on this issue - they could get so many votes from....Women!!!

they've blown it - need a break away party

So much anger directed at women here, who are stating their frustration and anger when faced with perhaps their best fit political party betraying them over their defence of biological reality, women rights, children's safeguarding, privacy, dignity, sporting achievement etc.

Perhaps rather than attacking those of us considering using the remaining power we have left, by voting (or not) in a particular way, it would be better to direct that anger at the Labour politicians who are lying, lacking any integrity, and some even attacking women for their views, making us politically homeless.

@FOJN

Whilst it might not be a deal breaker as such for the majority or perhaps they haven't heard labours view on it yet- I think more people than you'd think will take notice of it.

I think you might be right about this. I'm a member of a group where a proposal for gender neutral language was put forward recently, I was bracing myself for a difficult discussion but it was unanimously dismissed as ridiculous which really surprised me. People were using activist buzz words satirically to underline how absurd they find the whole issue. If you'd asked me beforehand I would have guessed that three quarters of the people present would know nothing about the issue but I was very wrong. Anyway it was a relief not to have to persuade anyone to reject the proposal.

Even platforms like tik tok and twitter the tide is turning, and that's the demographic largely that preciously were behind it.

I voted Labour 40+ years, up to and including 2019. I've leafleted, knocked on doors, frozen my arse off at polling stations and had dogs set on me. So spare me your finger wagging. Take it up with your craven, spineless, brain coddled party.

@JoodyBlue

I don't want to get the Tories out - they are the only party holding the line for women. I say that as a person who has never voted Tory before.

Snap.

@Alonelonelylonersbadidea

Yes that's the sad thing. I cannot vote Tory. But this is big enough for me to not vote Labour. The Greens are awash with this as are the Lib Dems. I don't have to agree with a party on everything, but I have to agree on more than one thing so I can't vote Tory.

Agree. It really fucks me off when TRAs amongst other suggest that those of us who are GC are hard right, or rabid fascists. I've NEVER voted conservative, I've always tended to the left, have been a Labour Party member...and it kills me really, that the party I really, really do not support, are seemingly the only ones speaking sense on this.

I wrote to my labour mp a year or so ago. Never got a reply.

I'd be very wary of writing again. Of labour get in how long would it be before they pinned my concerns for a hate crime?
I don't have any money or power to protect me from that. Thankfully voting is anonymous.

@SmallPrawnEnergy

Cost of living, wages, energy, house prices, overwhelmed health services + possibly climate change and any war related security issues. The majority of MN really don’t care or are in a position not to cate about most of these points. Cost of living, energy, houses prices and health services aren’t important to the rich folk here. There are folk out there who are literally scraping pennies together to feed their kids or put the heating on for an hour, this is what the rotors have done to the working class of this country. Shafted is into ruin and wreck. They don’t care. But call breastfeeding chest feeding and MN will froth and foam. It’s absolutely disgusting the lack of awareness and empathy thr vast majority of women on this site have for those struggling . They will of course say otherwise but simply put, they wouldn’t vote Tory if they did. The tori’s are simply carrying out eugenics on the poor people of this country and those voting them in are complicit

And five minutes actually reading around the boards would make it plain that this is a lot of bollocks.

Another 'rightwingantiabortionreganfundednunrichwhiteoldsaggytitted' smearing attempt in desperation that no one listen to women. Stopped working years ago.

It is quite terrifying that I agree with something our idiot PM says.

The fact the labour party are going along with this batshit absurd gender ideology isn't just some weird freak occurrence, outside all their other thinking.

It's the clearest and most extreme example of the identity politics that has consumed the left.

The idea that your identity feelings and lived experience trump facts and that everything is a power struggle between identity groups is pervasive, and central to leftist thinking.

That's why they're having such a hard time with this. It fits their over arching ideology but has taken it to an extreme position which exposes them.

It makes me laugh everyone who thinks leftist identity politics is still great except on this issue.
This is where it leads.

The labour party's position on gender ideology is consistent with their current politics.

It's a feature not a bug.

@ImAvingOops

They'll get my vote for this. It's the hill I'm willing to die on - if the Labour Party etc aren't willing to define what a woman is then they can't be trusted to protect us. If they are so weak that they will allow TRA to pressure them into this ridiculous stance where they deny biological facts, what else will they bend on?

Labour etc have proven themselves to be utterly spineless. I'm not defending the Tories but in a time where no party represents me, at least this one recognises what I am!

It’s this for me.

Of all the issues I’m happy to put this above all others