Boris has nailed colours to mast

[Ridcully82]

On gender transition at PMQs:" biology overwhelmingly important", preceded by urging respect for those feeling they need to transition. Sounded calm, respectful,and kinda where we were on course before the TRA actions.

But the Tories don't actually give a shit about women and children, they are just saying the right things to get your vote.

Saying the right things to get your vote - well yes, that's what political parties do if they have any sense - listen to the electorate and create policies which the people want. So why do Labour persist in sticking to policies that the people obviously don't want? They are either just stupid and incompetent or they don't give a shiny shit what the people want. In either case they are not getting my vote.

As far as I’m concerned Starmer and his bunch of stammering prats have made their position crystal clear in their failure to be able to define a woman.

I’m a one issue voter now. If you won’t recognise and protect my sex then the rest of your manifesto is irrelevant. So Labour can just stfu.

I wouldn’t believe a Tory if they told me the earth was round.

Then I would suggest you are as dogmatic in your views as those who chant TWAW.

@DifficultBloodyWoman

I wouldn’t believe a Tory if they told me the earth was round.

Then I would suggest you are as dogmatic in your views as those who chant TWAW.

If you say so. 🤷‍♀️

My views are based on over 40 years of voting and experience of different governments. I’d have voted for John Major’s government quite happily, it had integrity and maturity. This iteration of the Tories routinely lies, cheats, gives our money to its mates, breaks manifesto promises and would say anything if it thought there was a vote in it. Why on earth would I trust it?

Yes but how can we trust supposedly intelligent adults who parrot a lie they know is a delusion and that directly harms womens interests?

You can trust whoever you like @MsTSwift. As can I.

Well as it stands I don’t trust any of them! Which is awkward when it comes to voting!

We're not completely politically homeless, sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

Maybe instead of spoiling the ballot or voting for a man that calls us fickle. We could vote for parties like these? If all women voted for alternatives then it might give a loud message even if those parties can't win. Voting for parties that are telling the truth about biological sex in their manifestos helps to amplify our voices, if parties like these become popular they will be invited to speak more often.

I'll be voting conservative, as will my daughter.

God help us if labour wins the next election.

Imho voting for an alternative party is a wasted vote. Also you'd have to have a candidate running in your area and many areas won't.
Voting Conservative sends a clearer message. There will be actual clear consequences for labour that are obvious in a way ballot spoiling or fringe voting don't have.
However, everyone should obviously vote using their own critical thinking skills and others may think differently, but that's just my two pennies worth.

We had LDs knocking yesterday. I explained that although I know these are local elections, I could never vote for a party that can't (won't?) define "woman" and that I am never going to support self-ID because of what will happen as a result.

I added that I'm very, very worried about young children being taught all the kinds of things that appear to have necessitated the Cass Review. Or exposed to those things online.

He didn't want to ask for more detail but looked like he knew what I was talking about and left.

It’s a shame as I had to contact my LD mp yesterday about a point of law and she was very helpful and responsive. I agree with her on most things but she is passionately TWAW and actively campaigns for self id. It’s so frustrating.

I think this thread should be retitled ‘Boris flicks a few basic reality crumbs down from his sexist table’. That’s all that’s happened.

I refuse to feel grateful enough for that to actually vote for him. Even if I did solely decide my vote on this one issue. Why would I?

If this is our single issue, like it or not we ARE all still politically homeless. I asked upthread what the Boris johnson government has done or promised to do to protect women and girls from gender identity harms. Still waiting for even one example. If you’re saying you’re swayed enough to vote Tory then something they’ve actually done or promised in a manifesto somewhere must have convinced you. Not an allusion of a comment at PMQs about biology being important too and rights being important too. We all fucking know that much. The people who hate women can agree with that statement, just as much as the ones who support women’s rights do.

I don’t know what clear message you think voting Conservative will send. Or who you think’s going to listen to it.

The message Tory voters send me is that they’ll tolerate any amount of lying, corruption and wealth redistribution from the poorest to the richest if it suits their own ends. I’m not prepared to be that person, particularly given that they’re so unprincipled they’re likely to change their mind on a sixpence.

Johnson has lied and lied and lied. Why do you think he’s not lying now?

If he recognises there is political capital in supporting womens rights, it is the best chance we have.

If Labour gave a toss about the poor and vulnerable they claim to they wouldn't be so invested in this pathetic ideological purity game and insisting on maintaining such uncompromising positions on things the electorate do not want. They are not behaving like they have any desire to be elected.

It is outrageous, I agree, that the tories have become the lesser of two evils. But unfortunately womens rights are existential for me.

I disagree. It was part of a bigger answer to this question:

"I welcome the important interim report from Dr Hilary Cass in which she highlights the need for more research into why so many young girls are presenting with gender distress. Will my right hon. Friend agree to meet me and other concerned colleagues to discuss how we can constructively support those young people who are experiencing gender distress?"

He said:

"I would be very happy to meet my hon. Friend. This is one of those issues that the whole House is coming to realise requires extreme sensitivity, tact, love and care. We must recognise that when people want to make a transition in their lives, they should be treated with the maximum possible generosity and respect. We have systems in this country that allow that and have done for a long time, and we should be very proud of that, but I want to say in addition that I think, when it comes to distinguishing between a man and a woman, the basic facts of biology remain overwhelmingly important."

This indicates that the Cass Review is being taken seriously at the highest level. His point may have been incidental or tangential - but his words about the Cass Review are very important.

He chose to mention the significance of biology as part of that question. I note we've heard NOTHING from Stonewall, Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, LGBT Foundation about his words.

Where's the faux outrage? Maybe they realise the game is up.

So I disagree that this isn't important or significant. It is.

If he recognises there is political capital in supporting womens rights, it is the best chance we have

And when there’s political capital in something damaging to women? What happens then?

To me it’s an odd hill for labour to die on. Why are they so invested in gender ideology and all the harm that will bring to women and girls that they are willing to risk electoral suicide? If they care about helping women and girls then they would reject gender ideology not embrace it.
I actually Keir is not trying to fudge the issue when he tells us it’s complicated. I think he actually buys into it all and that is worrying to me. Worse than partygate etc. I dislike ideological leaders of whatever stripe. I prefer pragmatism generally.
I also dislike labour’s approach to the online harm bill much like their approach to lockdown, they want more
They have a very authoritarian nature recently and I will not vote for that.

@ResisterRex

I disagree. It was part of a bigger answer to this question:

"I welcome the important interim report from Dr Hilary Cass in which she highlights the need for more research into why so many young girls are presenting with gender distress. Will my right hon. Friend agree to meet me and other concerned colleagues to discuss how we can constructively support those young people who are experiencing gender distress?"

He said:

"I would be very happy to meet my hon. Friend. This is one of those issues that the whole House is coming to realise requires extreme sensitivity, tact, love and care. We must recognise that when people want to make a transition in their lives, they should be treated with the maximum possible generosity and respect. We have systems in this country that allow that and have done for a long time, and we should be very proud of that, but I want to say in addition that I think, when it comes to distinguishing between a man and a woman, the basic facts of biology remain overwhelmingly important."

This indicates that the Cass Review is being taken seriously at the highest level. His point may have been incidental or tangential - but his words about the Cass Review are very important.

He chose to mention the significance of biology as part of that question. I note we've heard NOTHING from Stonewall, Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, LGBT Foundation about his words.

Where's the faux outrage? Maybe they realise the game is up.

So I disagree that this isn't important or significant. It is.

Agree. Boris’s words were significant and pretty fair and clear that there a conflict there ( which is mainly what I want to be acknowledged by politicians so we can move forward) Keir would never ever say what Boris did and that to me is shocking. And yes there has been no push back at all as far as I can see apart from an item I heard on PM with Evan Davies that I could have given a good counter argument to.

To me it’s an odd hill for labour to die on. Why are they so invested in gender ideology and all the harm that will bring to women and girls that they are willing to risk electoral suicide?

And not just women and girls, many faiths will not be comfortable with a man sharing a space with a women. Have labour councillors of faith shared their views?

There’s no rule that anyone has to vote Tory (or for anyone other party, or vote at all) on this one issue just because they dislike Labour. ‘No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her sex.’ They’re ALL ignoring our sex.

The legal challenges and grassroots campaigns have all been crowdfunded by women like us, the Cass review is commissioned and funded by the NHS..not the government.. what am I missing here ?

Kicking the GRA reforms off into the long grass is not a victory for women’s rights given to us by the Tories. It’s not a protection. It’s keeping a visceral threat as currency, dangling it as a bargaining chip over us. Any future government or this one, could put it back on the table at any time.

Fuck that. That’s not supporting us. Thats the government preferring to avoid a pile on from TRAs that they think would make them look bad. Not touching the GRA is leaving all the existing problems in place for god knows how much longer, which if you’re a detransitioned woman legally unable to remove your GRC, for example, is pretty urgent to resolve. Which if you’re a woman wanting to speak out about women’s rights, can result in serious personally-directed trouble literally coming to your door. It’s not democratic.

I’m curious why anyone on here would feel so reassured by so little? Is #begratefulforcrumbs the new #bekind?

@LadyGrillingSole

I'll be voting conservative, as will my daughter.

God help us if labour wins the next election.

You should have listened to the Tory MP who chairs their Trans rights committee then, an eye opener! he was 110 % against what Bojo said (who has a history of saying one thing and doing the opposite)

I like to think i'm fairly open minded on my views but this guy went far far further than anything Labour have suggested.

Full on trans rights, same as any other group.

I will wait and see what each parties manifesto says on these matters before making up my mind.

So far Labour has offered making misogyny a hate crime and TWAW. That, plus their penchant for authoritarian overreach would be a disaster for the online bill.

Mumsnet would be gone.

Think it can't happen? I think it could.

Like any party there have always been a range of opinions within the Tory party. It is where the consensus is formed that matters, and the policy that ends up in the manifesto.

A good number of Tory MPs have stuck their heads above the parapet and articulated GC views, and started pushing back on some of the Stonewall influence within Government. David TC Davis started the ball rolling, with Liz Truss, Miriam Cates, Kemi Badenoch, and Jackie Doyle-Price using their Ministerial or Committee influence to move things along. Their male colleagues seem, finally to understand that this is an issue that matters to voters, and are starting to follow their lead. Now, apparently, including Boris. Rishi appears not to have grasped the issue, and why it matters, but he will get there. (Because he is ambitious.)

The “What is a Woman” interview line that is guaranteed to cause Labour politicians to squirm seems to have forced male Tory MPs who have no interest in the issue at all to pick a side.

There are some dyed in the wool TWAW MPs with key positions on LGBTQ++++ committees and who presumably caused Theresa May to embark on GRA reform, thinking it was an easy and progressive win. But as an understanding develops that this is an important issue for voters, the Tory policy can be expected to reflect majority voter opinion.