Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boris has nailed colours to mast

613 replies

Ridcully82 · 23/03/2022 12:41

On gender transition at PMQs:" biology overwhelmingly important", preceded by urging respect for those feeling they need to transition. Sounded calm, respectful,and kinda where we were on course before the TRA actions.

OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 19:45

I don't oppose the GRA in principle. I oppose self-ID and support the legality (and simple use) of the single-sex exceptions. If trans people want legal recognition of their gender for reasons of their own comfort, it's an accommodation I can make. I will only oppose it if I have to.

VestofAbsurdity · 24/03/2022 19:53

Are you against gay people being able to marry because it was brought in by the Tories under Cameron?

I mean the guy was a massive bellend but I still think it was the right thing to do. Yikes! I must be a Tory now! Oh noes!

Exactly, I despair at this idiotic tribalism shown by SomePosters it will blow their mind that Stonewall was initially against same sex marriage.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 24/03/2022 19:54

@FOJN

I cringe looking back at the smug Guardian-reader I was.

Me too. I'm embarrassed by the arrogance and righteousness of my 2015 self. This issue and several others have been a real education for me. What I see now is the left blaming the right for stoking the culture wars when in fact the right are resisting a cultural revolution the left insist we need. I'm worried the backlash will take us into right wing extremism and I mean genuine extremism not the kind of mainstream right wing views which too many on the left label fascist as a way of shaming anyone who votes for a mainstream right leaning party.

Agree with a lot of that, although I'd say that the Right in the US actually fired the first shots in the culture wars, by weaponising abortion rights and gun control, which weren't big issues before the Reagan era.

Even more than the sniping of Left and Right, I am shocked by the speed with which liberals (small and large L), have abandoned free speech and tolerance.

MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 19:54

it's an accommodation I can make
But it's not up to you to decide everyone else should make that accomodation.

Some women have good reasons for saying no. Can you think of any?

tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 19:58

@MyLittlePhonyPony

it's an accommodation I can make But it's not up to you to decide everyone else should make that accomodation.

Some women have good reasons for saying no. Can you think of any?

I didn't say that, of course. I completely support women voicing their opposition to the GRA. This is a democracy.
MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 20:01

Yes sorry, that came across snarky.

I just get tired of the 'I am fine sharing a barrrffroom so everyone else is too' brigade.

tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 20:24

@MyLittlePhonyPony

Yes sorry, that came across snarky.

I just get tired of the 'I am fine sharing a barrrffroom so everyone else is too' brigade.

Don't worry. I know. Some people are very casual with giving away other people's rights. I'm not one of them.

I'm not personally that bothered about sharing toilets with the odd TW as long as they are well-built (the toilets). But it's not just about me. There are - for example - religiously devout women trying to use the same spaces, women who have been seriously assaulted, women for whom it just feels very uncomfortable, and it's not okay to dismiss their concerns.

MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 20:39

as long as they are well-built (the toilets)
Lol!

Scorchedterf · 24/03/2022 20:40

Before my mumsnet times I saw TWs as showing solidarity with women, not any more.

A vote is never wasted, even if you’re in a safe seat, political parties look at the votes against them as well as for them.
My safe seat MP is Crispin Blunt so I have no idea how I can vote, he’s certainly not a Tory who thinks that women matter.

      solidarity with women, that
HeDidWhattt · 24/03/2022 20:41

I will vote conservative because of this.
This is a hill I’m willing to die on.

Women matter….all women!

tabbycatstripy · 24/03/2022 20:42

@MyLittlePhonyPony

as long as they are well-built (the toilets) Lol!
Wink
DifficultBloodyWoman · 24/03/2022 21:15

I’m a floating voter.

I have previously had reason to vote against Labour (Corbyn, KS saying TWAW etc).

I now have a reason to actively vote for theTories.

BJ has won my vote rather than been awarded it by default.

fifteentoes · 24/03/2022 22:02

Jesus. All he said was that biology is important. Not even ANY statement of policy, intention of concrete law changes or anything. Not that you could trust a word of it anyway if he did, mind, but he didn't.

Aren't people just hearing what they want to hear? From the mouth of the most dishonest, corrupt, piss-taking leader in living memory...

Blossomtoes · 24/03/2022 22:10

@fifteentoes

Jesus. All he said was that biology is important. Not even ANY statement of policy, intention of concrete law changes or anything. Not that you could trust a word of it anyway if he did, mind, but he didn't.

Aren't people just hearing what they want to hear? From the mouth of the most dishonest, corrupt, piss-taking leader in living memory...

This. He’s proved time after time he can’t be trusted.
babyjellyfish · 24/03/2022 22:19

My safe seat MP is Crispin Blunt so I have no idea how I can vote, he’s certainly not a Tory who thinks that women matter.

Crispin Blunt is very TWAW as well as being a complete knob so don't vote for him!

fifteentoes · 24/03/2022 22:27

@MyLittlePhonyPony

Yours is one pont of view I have considerable sympathy with.

I'm not sure I agree about the previous Labour government - despite its considerable failings, it was demonstrably and measurably less bad in numerous ways than the current Tory one. You mention tuition fees just for one example - I agree and opposed them. But those fees are now three times higher than when Labour left office. If (as we agree) they were bad, how is that not three times as bad? Similar comparisons could be made about other issues, although obviously I can't speak for your particular situation at the time.

But as for Starmer and the current leadership, yes. You're right to be skeptical about what they'll actually do better. He lied through his teeth to get the Labour leadership on the promise of unifying the party (ha ha), and since has been thoroughly tepid in standing up to the Tories' abuse. There's no evidence of any commitment to genuine leftwing values.

But when Labour did have a leader committed to those values, and a policy platform based on them, so many were adamant they couldn't vote for such a "loony left" and needed to wait for the Labour party to become moderate and trustworthy and professional again. Well here it is - great. We can't have it both ways. The electorate is either willing to take on radical change or they get the same sh** slightly watered down.

Labour can't win this way because the two demands being levelled at them are directly contrary so they can't possibly satisfy both. What's bizarre is that people don't seem to have any such demands of the Tories, even when they're even worse.

The system's completely f*ed in terms of delivering anything approaching genuine democracy, IMO. The only thing that could do that (and, to get back to the point, what would unquestionably be the best thing for a new party to represent women's sex-based rights) is proportional representation.

Dinosauria · 24/03/2022 22:32

Some people are very casual with giving away other people's rights this can not be stressed enough

Jesus. All he said was that biology is important. Not even ANY statement of policy, intention of concrete law changes or anything. you are right, but it's got so bad we are reduced to scavenging for crumbs.

CakeAmbushAlert · 24/03/2022 22:36

@fifteentoes Jesus. All he said was that biology is important. Not even ANY statement of policy, intention of concrete law changes or anything. Not that you could trust a word of it anyway if he did, mind, but he didn't

It was just refreshing to hear a politician say it. I don't understand why the other parties seem to be tying themselves in knots by denying biology?

Whatonearth07957 · 24/03/2022 22:38

This is my hill... I'd have been open to other parties but they are all pretty coalesced on central ground... This is crucial for women and the most vulnerable women... I'm fed up being silent... Give me a proper vote in this... I don't believe men are marginalized in their choices... Go on burn me have no more shits to give

MyLittlePhonyPony · 24/03/2022 22:42

My point about university fees wasn't about how they'd been hiked to be honest, I do think some fees are fair. It was more that Labour were the first government to actively encourage my generation into university with the promise of graduate jobs and a better life, knowing full well that that wasn't the case and they've just done it to massage unemployment figures without any thought to the fallout on the students who discover they're overqualified but can't earn enough to live. Yes, successive governments have followed suit but Labour started that particular shit show.
I'm not entirely sure people want a more left wing labour though. I mean, sure young idealistic new voters, but as a country we tend to be more moderate. I imagine that the Tories are perceived to get less shit because they are somewhat self serving but readily adapt to be central yet have some progressive stances.

I do agree the system is fucked but considering what most of the female labour MPs come out with, bar Duffield, I'm not sure female representation would help that much.

Kendodd · 24/03/2022 23:11

Some people are very casual with giving away other people's rights this can not be stressed enough

Isn't that the truth.
I'll never forgive those who campaigned and voted for Brexit for stripping me and my children of all our rights as EU citizens.

Iwassonaive · 24/03/2022 23:18

@Dinosauria

Some people are very casual with giving away other people's rights this can not be stressed enough

Jesus. All he said was that biology is important. Not even ANY statement of policy, intention of concrete law changes or anything. you are right, but it's got so bad we are reduced to scavenging for crumbs.

There have been other hints. He sent congratulations to LGB Alliance a few months ago and of course the usual suspects are still trying to get their charitable status revoked because of 'transphobia' lol. This was around the same time the PM's wife was cosying up to Stonewall at the Party Conference. The Tories allowed LGB Alliance and Stonewall to have stalls at the conference....freedom of speech matters....sex matters. Keir Starmer can't even define the 2 sexes.
Iwassonaive · 24/03/2022 23:20

@babyjellyfish

My safe seat MP is Crispin Blunt so I have no idea how I can vote, he’s certainly not a Tory who thinks that women matter.

Crispin Blunt is very TWAW as well as being a complete knob so don't vote for him!

I am now by default a Tory voter but wouldn't vote for an openly TWAW Tory such as Blunt, Mordaunt.
Fifteentoes · 25/03/2022 00:36

Keir Starmer can't even define the 2 sexes.

Is Boris Johnson on record as ever having defined the 2 sexes?

MangyInseam · 25/03/2022 00:43

@Slothtoes

FFS. Please don’t give your votes away solely on the back of one insinuation. I’ll believe that that incompetent, morally bankrupt shitweasel is serious when he uses his inexplicably massive Parliamentary majority to actually repeal the GRA. Until then, we’re no safer than we were before politically, self iD could be brought back in by anyone and I still feel politically homeless.
I would say that repealing the GRA would be a massive undertaking and is some way down the road. There's no point in demanding immediately what would be impossible to deliver politically.
Swipe left for the next trending thread