Boris has nailed colours to mast

[Ridcully82]

On gender transition at PMQs:" biology overwhelmingly important", preceded by urging respect for those feeling they need to transition. Sounded calm, respectful,and kinda where we were on course before the TRA actions.

@Rosit

Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

Not in the slightest.

It's a view also shared by Rosie Duffield (Labour) and Joanna Cherry (SNP), among others, such as Jonny Best, Joanne Rowling, Maya Forstater, Helen Joyce and others I admire. Oh, and my young adult son.

A mainstream view that biological sex exists and that it matters and is worth researching (as is the social action of gendering) is not confined to the Tories.

It's not a binary. Some senior(ish) Tories themselves are gender ideology fans, e.g. Crispin Blunt MP, Penny Mordaunt MP, Caroline Nokes MP, and Maria Miller MP. Theresa May even fell for it when she was PM.

So, no thank you.

@Rosit

Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

Boris also said 'The issue (gender distress) is one that the whole House is coming to realise needs tact, love and care.

So do you agree with this, or is also the wrong side of history because you don't like the messenger?

Quite possibly the first time he's told the truth.

", I couldn’t give a shit about having a vagina, "
Bully for you. One day it'll matter and it will be too late

@bozzabollix

It’s been proven that women have been overwhelming at the brunt of Tory economic policy, but this issue is supposedly important enough to let them carry on swinging the wrecking ball?

Fuck that, I want them out, they’ve wrecked this country for years, they’ve rogered our health system, our educational system, our economy is stifled by Brexit, I couldn’t give a shit about having a vagina, they need to go.

And no I’m not on the wrong side of history here. I’ve studied it, and it’s not pleasant seeing the country go backwards.

Very luckily we live in a democracy so no one is forcing your vote.

And luckily we live in a free speech country and those who do feel their vote will be swayed by this matter are free to voice their opinions .

@EmergencyHydrangea

Like the tory party has ever given one single fuck about most women.

What, you think Boris 'lying' when he says that he thinks that being a woman is rooted in biology? What do you think he really thinks then?

I'll never vote Conservative. They are a dreadful government.

Boris Johnson might have said the mainstream words just now, but what he done about them? When he visibly and swiftly gets rid of the NHS's disgusting Annexe B, then I might start to believe he's not bullshitting.

But the fact he thinks this is a popular thing to say ought to make Labour think. But Labour won't. Labour's fucked.

I think he thinks this is our only chance to shaft Labour because they are shit on this. And he's right.

I’m not an activist when it comes to trans but I’m absolutely of the opinion that the movement has lost its rationality and perspective. I worry about my daughter experiencing perfectly normal feelings about her changing body and finding her way down a path that tells her it isn’t normal and means that she’s something she isn’t whilst promising fundamentally changing who she is will ‘fix’ everything.

But finding a voice that agrees with me belonging to a group that categorically shits over every other belief and moral I have isn’t enough to sway me from toppling them over.

On balance I’d rather argue my corner with those I disagree with but largely recognise my own values in than agree with those whose other values are so alien to my own.

Essentially this isn’t enough to get me to consider voting Tory. I’m a text book floating voter so my vote is absolutely up for grabs but I can’t see the current tories ever tempting me over.

@Calennig

Actually I see it completely the other way around. I see this gender ideology as an exercise in class privilege. The people promoting this don't give shit about the women from disadvantaged communities who are most likely to be most harmed by this - those that end up in prisons, homeless shelters, refuges and recovery centres. The privileged with degrees care not one crap about those women, who are far distanced from their lives. The privileged never imagine themselves ending up in one of those places so care not about what happens to those who do.

Absolutely this.

The option to opt out of mixed sex facilites is harder to access lower down the socioeconomic hierarchy you are.

Absolutely this. Totally. I’m going to have to have a big think when voting time come. Labour is a no no. Mind you, I live in such a Tory stronghold that I cannot imagine my vote will make one iota difference.

Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

As opposed to those who think that children should be injected with powerful drugs that will mess up their endocrine systems, brain development and bones, potentially permanently, and who think that male needs should always trump female needs, even down to male rapists being housed in female prisons because they choose to be....that is the 'right side of history'?

@midlifecrash

He’s not to be trusted on this or anything else. But it means the damage this is doing to Labour has been noticed

Agree. It is doing immense damage to Labour. Boris is still in saving his skin mode, and will do or say anything to try and save his job.

They've obviously realised by backing reality they are going to win votes from women.

I hate the Tories and will never vote for them no matter what, I just dont feel able to vote for Labour either right now.

It's flummoxing to know what to do when you hate the Tories but they're the only ones speaking sense on this.

I can't vote Tory - but I can't vote for the other parties either.

What do you do when there are no viable alternatives? Not vote?

I wish very much we could vote on policies not parties.

Actually I see it completely the other way around. I see this gender ideology as an exercise in class privilege. The people promoting this don't give shit about the women from disadvantaged communities who are most likely to be most harmed by this - those that end up in prisons, homeless shelters, refuges and recovery centres. The privileged with degrees care not one crap about those women, who are far distanced from their lives. The privileged never imagine themselves ending up in one of those places so care not about what happens to those who do.

This is so important to keep saying. If you're flush, chances are you can buy your way out of places where this is a problem. Go to a different gym, have no need of a shelter or refuge, or you're not banged up.

The less money you have, the worse gender ideology is for you.

It's a luxury belief system, peddled by people who never bothered to think how it would look and feel in the real world. In the real lives of real people.

@VestofAbsurdity

Suspect the Tory Party can see the tide is turning, they've seen the ridicule heaped on the Labour Party members who can't/won't say what a woman is.

Snap.

I really think I might spoil my ballot next election. I live in a safe Tory seat, but have always voted Labour. I literally cannot imagine voting Labour at the next election, I am so disgusted with the party right now. I don't want to vote Tory either, and Lib Dems/Greens hate women so much they are not an option.

No one gives a fuck about women when it comes down to it. It's so depressing.

"Do you not worry - especially those of you expressing horror at agreeing with BoJo/Tories - that the fact that your view is shared by him and the tories is, perhaps, a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here?

As opposed to those who think that children should be injected with powerful drugs that will mess up their endocrine systems, brain development and bones, potentially permanently, and who think that male needs should always trump female needs, even down to male rapists being housed in female prisons because they choose to be....that is the 'right side of history'? confused"

HOW can knowing (it's not a belief) that biological sex is fixed, immutable, definable and important possibly, possibly, possibly be an indicator that you're on the wrong side of history.

You are mad.

a signifier that you might be on the wrong side of history here

I think that caring about what side of history you are on isn’t very intelligent. We have no way of knowing what norms and values will be mainstream in the future, and trying to second guess it in order to be well regarded by people who haven’t been born yet is just... err... needy is the only word I can think of right now. Have courage in your convictions!

@MalagaNights

The fact the labour party are going along with this batshit absurd gender ideology isn't just some weird freak occurrence, outside all their other thinking.

It's the clearest and most extreme example of the identity politics that has consumed the left.

The idea that your identity feelings and lived experience trump facts and that everything is a power struggle between identity groups is pervasive, and central to leftist thinking.

That's why they're having such a hard time with this. It fits their over arching ideology but has taken it to an extreme position which exposes them.

It makes me laugh everyone who thinks leftist identity politics is still great except on this issue.
This is where it leads.

The labour party's position on gender ideology is consistent with their current politics.

It's a feature not a bug.

I agree and unfortunately I see a lot of young Labour supporters who seem to think opinions can become facts.

As an ex Labour voter I find that quite sad . And I am especially sad about the cancel culture and the fact you can’t debate without someone being “ offended”

Yes, people who only worry about being on 'the right side of history' also seem to be the ones lacking any critical thinking skills whatsoever and just blindly say increasingly batshit stuff to desperately try and stick to the line (eg. Most Labour politicians).

@ResisterRex

Actually I see it completely the other way around. I see this gender ideology as an exercise in class privilege. The people promoting this don't give shit about the women from disadvantaged communities who are most likely to be most harmed by this - those that end up in prisons, homeless shelters, refuges and recovery centres. The privileged with degrees care not one crap about those women, who are far distanced from their lives. The privileged never imagine themselves ending up in one of those places so care not about what happens to those who do.

This is so important to keep saying. If you're flush, chances are you can buy your way out of places where this is a problem. Go to a different gym, have no need of a shelter or refuge, or you're not banged up.

The less money you have, the worse gender ideology is for you.

It's a luxury belief system, peddled by people who never bothered to think how it would look and feel in the real world. In the real lives of real people.

Yep.

I've said it before but Labour would never run on a platform of cancelling Match of the Day because they'd worry about losing the votes of football fans.

And yet they can maintain there's no definition of women and STILL women are told that we'd be better voting them in and only then trying to persuade them we matter.

@Joystir59

I will have to vote Labour as it's the only way to get the Tories out. Even though the Labour party are betraying me on this issue.

I would rather suffer another term of Tories than leave my DD (4) to have to live a lifetime without the safety and opportunities (particularly in sport) that have been afforded to me as a teenager in the 90s/young women on the 00s.

Judge Mr Johnson on actions not words. I doubt he will act much if at all. He could start by not staring at a woman's tits when talking to them.

I cannot vote for any party that erodes my right to be a woman and the rights of my daughters. The Conservatives are the only party to stick their necks out on this so they will be getting my vote. Ironic really considering the hell women went through to get the vote in the first place.