Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans athlete wins in female swimming race

387 replies

bonfireheart · 19/03/2022 11:12

www.lbc.co.uk/news/female-swimmers-transgender-lia-thomas-podium-protest-atlanta-result/

Don't know how true this story is but wonder if the public reaction to stuff like this will become more common.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
ErrolTheDragon · 21/03/2022 07:32

I think the only response to greasyshoes is "You cannot be serious".

Noisyprat · 21/03/2022 07:43

Nick Ferrari covering this on LBC this morning

theDudesmummy · 21/03/2022 08:00

I would quite like to listen to that but I so cannot stand Ferrari.

SamphiretheStickerist · 21/03/2022 08:16

@greasyshoes

Oh. I see. I mean development squads, grass roots looking for girls, women to participate. I mean the ACE style funding, I mean everything from 5 - 20 years old that is different now than it was say 50 years ago. I mean EVERYTHING in and out of sport that has become more equitable between men and women, boys and girls.

While it may have become "more equitable", I think this is misleading because obviously sport for girl's does not receive the same funding or attention, and girl's aren't pushed to do sport the same way boys are. As a boy, I was pushed to play football, and do physical activity. I never saw girls being pushed the same way. And despite that, there are loads of women who are physically far stronger than I am. That can only mean biology is a small part of it.

Oh! The logic leaps continued!

Look, greasy whilst you obviously think that is all fine and dandy you are still ignoring the obvious. Lots of girls are stronger than boys? Yes. Individual comparisons allow you to make all sorts of statements that are true but do not represent the whole cohort. This strong girls, those weak boys would either be a mismatch or would be statistical outliers.

Do you not think that scientific investigation is a tad more involved than "I know a girl who was stronger than me"?

Like the Williams sisters. They are a lot stronger and faster than many men. Yet when against men who have trained the very same skill sets, are their make equivalent, they will lose. And we all know why.

That you are arguing that grass is pink doesn't make an inherent, innate truth from existing.

You supposed clever statements only serve to illustrate your simplicity of thought, lack of critical thinking.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 21/03/2022 08:21

@ErrolTheDragon

I think the only response to greasyshoes is "You cannot be serious".
😀
spacehardware · 21/03/2022 08:28

Greasy shoes is just trolling. He's a man who thinks it's funny to try to make women explain and justify their basic humanity to him. He doesn't like women and sounds angry and resentful.

Please just ignore this sad specimen.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/03/2022 08:28

The Mail is covering the brave woman who was bumped out of the finals by Lia's cheating and has written to the NCAA in protest:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10633529/Virginia-Tech-swimmer-bumped-finals-Lia-Thomas-writes-letter-blasting-NCAA.html

SamphiretheStickerist · 21/03/2022 08:54

@spacehardware

Greasy shoes is just trolling. He's a man who thinks it's funny to try to make women explain and justify their basic humanity to him. He doesn't like women and sounds angry and resentful.

Please just ignore this sad specimen.

Yep! We all know that. But we still post, for those who lurk. Having been one of those I know just how enlightening such exchanges can be.

So we can thank greasy for the repeated opportunities to explain how the simple science works in real life.

😊

machamac · 21/03/2022 09:27

They're going to be talking about whether it's 'fair' on Jeremy Vine this morning. Around 10am.

Somanysocks · 21/03/2022 09:30

Ah so that's why that Owen person is on the JV panel today.

SamphiretheStickerist · 21/03/2022 09:56

That shoud be fun. I may leave a window open, in case my radio has to make a quick exit!

SamphiretheStickerist · 21/03/2022 09:58

Oh! You mean telly!>?!?!?!

sacredfeminina · 21/03/2022 10:04

Greasy please just wallow in your own stupidity, it's no ones job to try to fish you out. Go do your own research, or remain ignorant. No one cares for your intellectual fate, either way.

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 21/03/2022 10:07

Little OJ will no doubt send a few ppl up the mountain with his beee kind/it’s only a few TW/it’s only sport/you’re all bigots

NitroNine · 21/03/2022 10:30

[quote greasyshoes]@Midlifemusings

Better funding for sport for men and boys, more men and boys participating in sport.

If you have lots of men and boys competing in sport, and being encouraged to do so, and less women competing in sport, then of course you're going to see men and boys having better running times because the pool of men and boys is bigger to begin with.

The question is a bit like asking "Why are Americans bad at football?" It's not as if Americans have some genetic or biological factor which means they can't play football. You have less Americans playing football to begin with, it's not as well funded, hence, Americans don't perform as well as Europeans.[/quote]
Part of the issue may be that apparently @greasyshoes quite literally doesn’t believe women’s sport is really sport.

Because asserting “Americans don’t perform as well as Europeans [at football]” is patently untrue: the Stars & Stripes are an absolute force of nature. They’re also a perfect example of how socialisation & gender stereotyping impacts on sporting participation, given in the US “soccer” is seen as a girls’ game AND it is the preserve of the middle classes (as in “soccer moms”); but (although it’s a fast-growing field [pun shamelessly retained]) there are still almost no opportunities for girls & women to participate in American Football.

One might almost think that greasy hasn’t the faintest idea about what he’s so keen to lecture all of us on. I know, it’s a shocking thought, a man just barrelling in here to make nonsense pronouncements. A first for MN.

Such a waste not to at least try to use this particular feature of US life to illustrate that coherent argument for the primacy of socialisation (& utter insignificance of biology) that definitely absolutely totally exists & is real. Compounding that Americans can’t football analogy with a complete failure to attempt even a basic analysis of funding structures; grass-roots soccer & football; demographics (including axes of oppression); & the all-important College [sports’] scholarship system (& the pecuniary peculiarities thereof)… it all just highlights greasy’s utter lack of argument, & by extension, that those who would argue this in good faith can make interesting points about about sex-based socialisation, gender roles & participation in sport - but that’s as far as it goes. If he was hoping to look like he has pwnd the denizens of FWR by deliberately wasting our time with his nonsense, he’s just managed a fairly epic self-own.

greasy, if, contrary to all appearances, you actually DID want to engage in good faith but were somehow unable to contain the urge to contradict women at every turn, please at least read the masses of information you’ve been provided with. Make the most of @SamphiretheStickerist being so generous as to share her expertise.

Finally, the Stars & Stripes serve to demonstrate the differences between male & female bodies are key in sport: teenage boys can beat absolute world-class female players by virtue of male puberty. (And remember boys’ football in the US is, as per greasy’s assertion, lacking in investment: the women’s team have had every advantage & were still beaten. Because reality is unbending like that.) The Matildas have endured the same fate as have the Canarinhas & Sweden’s Blågult. Indeed, this is the outcome any time a women’s national team play a team of teenage boys. Biology is a constant, the consistent unifying shared reality of women. Imposed on that are culturally-mediated constructions of gender which dictate how the sexes are socialised. So socialisation somehow accounting for the losses would be remarkable…

Datun · 21/03/2022 10:32

Greasy doesn't sound to me like someone who believes what they're saying, at all. Otherwise he would take on board what women are telling him, and he's not, he's ignoring it. It's a purposeful position which appears to be driven by misogyny.

There are, however, quite a few people who do apparently think that men and women are fairly well matched in terms of physical power.

Maybe they never think about sport, or more likely, never think about women.

Or maybe they genuinely buy into all these kickass women in films who manage to make mincemeat out of one six foot bruiser after another.

I suspect most of them will be young, and probably not parents and certainly not sports people.

But there's no doubt they exist. And there's also no doubt that many people think that a reduction in testosterone would result in an equal reduction in power. There are far too many people who don't appear outraged by the takeover of women's sport.

And I'm sure a lot of them aren't aware that the root is pure misogyny.

So although I couldn't care less what Greasy thinks or says, I too, believe that convincing even one lurker would be a useful exercise.

Especially as it's fairly straightforward.

SamphiretheStickerist · 21/03/2022 10:38

Yes. The facts are pretty simple. So the continued expression of disbelief, supposedly clever questioning really is just being a twonk for twonk's sake.

Helleofabore · 21/03/2022 11:08

Greasy doesn't sound to me like someone who believes what they're saying, at all. Otherwise he would take on board what women are telling him, and he's not, he's ignoring it. It's a purposeful position which appears to be driven by misogyny.

yes datun. This seems true.

NitroNine · 21/03/2022 13:18

Oh, I think that I’ve about as much chance as getting picked for Pope next time there’s a vacancy as there is of greasy believing the things he’s saying. However, I wanted to help with ensuring nobody lurking could claim we’d not given him a fair go; & with underlining exactly what it is he’s actually about with his posts on here.

drum123 · 21/03/2022 15:42

Not sure if this has been shared already, but it shows how far the impact of 'one man on one event in one sport' goes. threadreaderapp.com/thread/1505729132151259141.html

334bu · 21/03/2022 15:58

I caught a bit of Jeremy Vine show where someone was actually saying that we were all attacking Lia because photos made them look big and in fact they were only 5 ft 8. Needless to say LOJ thought this was great. So Lia is now just a little bitty athlete despite all the photos showing Lia towering over female and even male colleagues. Do these people think our heads are buttoned up the back? Also why is Jeremy Vine not calling them out on this?

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 21/03/2022 16:07

Índia willoughby was spouting that bollocks yesterday all over twitter however despite all the official swimming sites recording LT height at 6ft 2/3, all the media sites are reporting theur height as 5ft 8

How quickly the lies spread around….

WelcomeMarch · 21/03/2022 16:47

Maybe Lia identifies as shorter. Fuck knows.

All the other swimmers now have to identify as 5ft 2 so as not to upset Lia, presumably.

Midlifemusings · 21/03/2022 16:58

Based on this photo of Lia walking between two other female swimmers, 5'8" is not accurate. She is almost a head taller than the other two and very few college level competitive swimmers are really short.

Trans athlete wins in female swimming race
EricCartmansMagicalUnderpants · 21/03/2022 16:58

Pointing out the unfair cheating is not attacking someone. It's simply spelling out the truth. It wouldnt matter if Lia was 7 foot or 5 foot. As a born male, they should be competing with men, not women. And if they're not good enough to compete with other men then tough shit. Most people aren't good enough to compete. I don't know what makes Lia think they're more special than anybody else.

Swipe left for the next trending thread