Trans athlete wins in female swimming race

[bonfireheart]

www.lbc.co.uk/news/female-swimmers-transgender-lia-thomas-podium-protest-atlanta-result/

Don't know how true this story is but wonder if the public reaction to stuff like this will become more common.

I wonder whether there are any instances of men at the top of their sport who then go on to identify as women?

Has happened in Paralympic running. Valentina Petrillo had a successful Paralympic career in Italy in the male category and then transitioned and qualified for Tokyo at the age of 47 I believe.

@greasyshoes

You are wrong in your belief that there are loads of women who are physically stronger than you unless you have a disability affecting muscle strength.

You have to keep in mind that very few men are like the huge, 6'2'' muscular men you see on TV all the time. Most of us are fairly weak and flabby. I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of women were physically stronger and faster than I am.

My teenager boys were stronger than me at 13.

My partner, same height as me, weighs the same as me had never run before he met me. Within weeks he was running faster than me. Even if I try really really hard I cannot beat this middle age, flabby male. Just look at park run stats - more men beat women than women beat men.

Oddly they tend to transition after they've hit peak male levels of competition (Hubbard, the Kiwi cyclist, Kardashian sr), and switch to competing as the women they apparently always were 🤷‍♀️

Well, there must be a word for a man who insists on finding a way to enter the under 5's egg and spoon race.

"Winner" is not the word.

@butnobodytoldme

Isn't that a bit insulting to women? To compare women's sport to an under 5s egg and spoon race?

World Rugby did a really good analysis on the difference between men and women when developing their transgender guidelines

www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/guidelines/transgender

Looool after all the utter drivel you’ve spouted you then clutch your pearls & talking about things being insulting

Lbh you thought you’d swan in here, mansplain at the silly mummies & leave feeling superiors & smug

As it is….

And Sports Council England here:
equalityinsport.org/docs/300921/Guidance%20for%20Transgender%20Inclusion%20in%20Domestic%20Sport%202021.pdf

Conclusion - if you are ‘inclusive’ this will not be fair or safe.

[quote greasyshoes]@butnobodytoldme

Isn't that a bit insulting to women? To compare women's sport to an under 5s egg and spoon race?[/quote]
It's called an analogy. Google it if you're not sure what one is.

Isn't that a bit insulting to women? To compare women's sport to an under 5s egg and spoon race?

What is insulting to women is men who think they have the right to compete in women's sports and take the awards / places that rightfully belong to women.

[quote greasyshoes]@butnobodytoldme

Isn't that a bit insulting to women? To compare women's sport to an under 5s egg and spoon race?[/quote]
Have you not heard of the male who identifies as a little girl?

Maybe, just maybe you are missing the very pertinent analogy being used here.

Greasy misses the point that we are comparing elite with elite. Not elite with the bloke down the road.

@greasyshoes

I genuinely think that some men going blindly through life have no idea about the physical disparity between men and women. Because they are not subjected to the same kind of dominance, they don't see it.

Not sure what made you say that, because I have been bullied by both men and women, and also physically hurt by women in the workplace. So I believe I have been subjected to it.

Exactly what I said. You have no idea of the physical disparity between men and women.

Do you think that because a woman hurt you there is no physical disparity?

My toddler hurt me...

@Midlifemusings so there aren't then, as that was a woman becoming a transman.

I think that if you grow up with siblings of the opposite sex it becomes quite apparent when boys become stronger than girls.

@ClariceQuiff

Greasy misses the point that we are comparing elite with elite. Not elite with the bloke down the road.

Maybe greasy identified as an elite athlete?

Most of us are fairly weak and flabby. I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of women were physically stronger and faster than I am

Oh behave…

Dh and i are in our 50’s, i outweigh him and outheight him and i still don’t stand a chance against him

Ludicrous….a complete embarrassment

And besides which, I don’t think anyone disagrees that there maybe an overlap, small though it is, between a woman who has trained to be incredibly strong having more strength than a very weak male.

However, positing that a male at the same weight, musculature, height etc doesn’t have any advantage over a female of the same measurements is called ‘never reading the science papers’.

I remember we had a poster like this last year. They were absolutely determined that they, as a weak transitioned male, was weaker than their fiancé or wife. And therefore should be allowed to continue to play women’s football.

They also continued to reject that they also had all these other advantages, including no menstrual issues. Because it didn’t suit their personal needs.

@DownWhichOfLate

I think that if you grow up with siblings of the opposite sex it becomes quite apparent when boys become stronger than girls.

When my boys were 15 (and i still outweighed and outheighted them) it took me a while to convince them they were stronger than me…I could still, due to my weight, win a pushing fights but I couldn’t lift what they could

A year or two later i had to start pretending that the only reason i was backing out of said pushing fights was because the floor was too slippy when i had my socks on

So if you get one or two young men on here in a few years saying that they can’t beat their mum in a pushing fight i take full responsibility, both for lying to them and obviously rearing idiots

My children are competitive swimmers.
Before puberty I would say that my son could have been beaten by a girl should he have competed directly against one. After puberty there is no chance. His times are faster than the equivalent female swimmer' times. To qualify for regionals and nationals their qualifying times are much faster than a woman's.
Swimming is not a sport where women and men can compete directly against each other. The only sport where this is possible is equestrian sports.

I would also like to add that before transitioning Lia was not considered a strong swimmer as a man. It's only after transitioning that she is doing well.
Funny how there seem to be a lot of average male athletes who decide to transition. It's always that way round.

For reference I am absolutely supportive of people who want to transition, your body, your choice. However it is unfair to compete in sports particularly transitioning women.

@Datun

I genuinely think that some men going blindly through life have no idea about the physical disparity between men and women. Because they are not subjected to the same kind of dominance, they don't see it.

Greasy, if men couldn't physically dominate women, we wouldn't live in a patriarchy.

Quite a number of women believe it too so I would not be entirely surprised that some men do. I tend to think that men are actually less likely to understand this.

Lots of people now just sit in offices all day, they are pretty sedentary, and then you have films and tv with women and men physically on par.

Shoot, above I should say men are more likely too understand the disparity.

@titchy

Oddly they tend to transition after they've hit peak male levels of competition (Hubbard, the Kiwi cyclist, Kardashian sr), and switch to competing as the women they apparently always were 🤷‍♀️

Indeed.