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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 3

999 replies

Whatamesssss · 17/03/2022 16:43

Thread one, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Thread two, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?pg=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
LangificusClegasaurous · 21/03/2022 10:58

At the same time, bringing gender ideology into to the office where co-workers are compelled beyond politeness to pretend to believe something offensive to them is fine.

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 21/03/2022 10:58

Go Ben go Grin

LarissaFeodorovna · 21/03/2022 10:59

@LangificusClegasaurous

At the same time, bringing gender ideology into to the office where co-workers are compelled beyond politeness to pretend to believe something offensive to them is fine.
As opposed to requiring Maya to believe something that was offensive to her, which is obviously fine. Hmm
WinterTrees · 21/03/2022 11:00

@LangificusClegasaurous

At the same time, bringing gender ideology into to the office where co-workers are compelled beyond politeness to pretend to believe something offensive to them is fine.
Standing on my desk and applauding this. Thank you Ben!
nauticant · 21/03/2022 11:01

MA agrees that the part he finds so offensive comes from a question raised by the government.

CriticalCondition · 21/03/2022 11:01

On.The.Ropes.

LangificusClegasaurous · 21/03/2022 11:01

Did I get this right- he's saying it's offensive for women to think there's risks involved in giving up same-sex spaces, after he said he decided to get rid of Maya on the basis of a perceived risk, not a real event?

tabbycatstripy · 21/03/2022 11:02

MA: Yes, I think, to give an example, is p. (), because I thought that it was claiming this would cause trans people to come into spaces and that would be a risk to women, and I didn't think that was the sort of thing you should bring into the office even if you campaign on it outside.

BC: One question is whether this is offensive, and one is whether it's normal in the office. But you didn't investigate the latter?

MA: I can't say whether it was or wasn't but other witnesses have indicated that it was.

BC: We can look at that (not sure it's right). But what is offensive, and you highlighted this. So are we picking that as the most offensive?

MA: No. I am going through it now to identify what is most offensive because I didn't sit down and figure that out. I'm trying to see now and I might well find other things.

BC: Stick with that example. Did I understand you think it's offensive because it suggests there may be harms arising from making SSS open to TW?

MA: Y

BC: You understood because it's at the top of the page that it was an answer to a question that the government had asked?

MA: Y

BC: Implicit in the question that the government doesn't think women should lose male-free spaces?

MA: Y

BC: And you see the govt saying they wouldn't remove those SSS?

MA: Y

BC: But... you tell me. Did you really read this carefully?

MA: I didn't read it carefully, going through every paragraph. I read through it and came away thinking it shouldn't be in the workspace. That was sum total of looking at it on my screen.

BC: Did you understand that the essential point is that even though there may be no proposal to remove the SSS, the effect would be that it would be more difficult for orgs to know where they are and enforce them?

MA: I understand that is the essential point.

BC: Tell me, is there anything in the remainder that you regard as more offensive?

MA: Let me go through it then, Mr Cooper.

BC:

LarissaFeodorovna · 21/03/2022 11:02

@LangificusClegasaurous

Did I get this right- he's saying it's offensive for women to think there's risks involved in giving up same-sex spaces, after he said he decided to get rid of Maya on the basis of a perceived risk, not a real event?
I think that is the noose that BC is currently tightening around MA's neck, yes.
dolorsit · 21/03/2022 11:04

Going way back about the claim that red and black promotional material is Nazi imagery...

Maybe someone should give Oxfam the heads up

Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 3
LatinforTelly · 21/03/2022 11:04

Anyone else criiiinging for Mr Ahmed? Agree, he was senior, recognised subject as hot potato, wanted problem gone.

I'd be interested in what Mr Ahmed actually thinks about women's rights and the definition of woman. I bet it's not the party line.

Yes, very interesting post InvisibleDragon - thank you.

nauticant · 21/03/2022 11:05

MA is now finding other offensive matter in the leaflet such as on page 885 the implication that this would threaten the risk of single sex service providers to do their job creating a climate of fear and on page 887 the implication that this will somehow lead to greater instances of women and girls to be exposed to people in male bodies, trans people.

LangificusClegasaurous · 21/03/2022 11:05

Man finds it offensive that women need single sex services and can't provide them without single sex provisions

woman who disagrees loses jobs

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 21/03/2022 11:05

MA has just referred to "women and girls born in female bodies" with no thought to what we think of it and he's an arbiter of what is offensive?

LangificusClegasaurous · 21/03/2022 11:05

--job
really pissed off atm

nauticant · 21/03/2022 11:06

MA: I find it personally offensivee to imply as the leaflet does that allowing trans people to self identify to be women would lead to a risk of discomfort and threat for cis-women.

LangificusClegasaurous · 21/03/2022 11:06

I find being called a cis woman very offensive, especially in this context
don't be bringing this crap into legislation

corlan · 21/03/2022 11:07

They really need to sort out the cameras. I'm getting distracted by a man in a dressing gown picking his nose and playing with his bald patch!

LangificusClegasaurous · 21/03/2022 11:08

I imagine if we weren't all on mute there'd be a chorus of choice language

InvisibleDragon · 21/03/2022 11:09

tabbycatstripey StarStarStar

nauticant · 21/03/2022 11:09

MA: If more transwomen are able to identify as such the risks go up in ways that I find the linkage to be offensive in making transwomen to be a source of threat.

nauticant · 21/03/2022 11:10

BC: Apart from the threat aspect, what about safety privacy and dignity of women?

No real answer from MA.

WinterTrees · 21/03/2022 11:11

It sounds like he's really discovering his previously non-existent outrage now. Suddenly realising he's actually a passionate advocate for trans rights. Who knew? (not him, I'd hazard.)

Helleofabore · 21/03/2022 11:11

@corlan

They really need to sort out the cameras. I'm getting distracted by a man in a dressing gown picking his nose and playing with his bald patch!
I have covered that part of my screen. He is very very distracting. Like Mr Kirker doing up his button fly and tucking his shirt in.
LatinforTelly · 21/03/2022 11:11

@corlan

They really need to sort out the cameras. I'm getting distracted by a man in a dressing gown picking his nose and playing with his bald patch!
Agree. Am paranoid. Have shut off camera and put tape over it on laptop. Is there anyway you can "find" yourself on the screen to check, like zoom? The icons are saying my camera is off.