Emma Nicholson in the Times

[Igneococcus]

On single sex wards:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f6f6c84a-a499-11ec-b05a-8d7b276f1397?shareToken=1c8f4c99404e08ae113db7787fb3686e

And read the pregnancy and birth threads. Thousands of females in one of the scariest times of their life - notice how many of them are stressed and made miserable by the presence of male visitors on the ward, especially at night. What the experience of vulnerability in a female body is like.

Read the threads of women trying to escape and recover from abusive relationships, life in refuges, ptsd, the years of trauma and being triggered, trying to continue parenting while often dealing with ongoing abuse.

The threads of women trying to recover from the abuse experienced in childhood that is unique to the female experience because it involved their discovering, often at a young age, what it is like to live in biology that male people feel entitled to. And that your consent isn't irrelevant.

The threads about living with periods, trying to manage flooding and miscarriages in public loos, what that's like.

Go and try and understand what female people experience and feel. We get told over and over and over on these boards that if we'd just listen to a transwoman we'd understand and hand over our rights and not mind about our needs and feelings any more, we'd gladly put that male person's needs first.

I'm saying the exact same thing. Go listen . Try listening to why females need female only spaces and what will happen to those females if male people successfully remove them for their own needs and benefits.

Stonewall et al have advised public and private sector organisations for years now that it's all about not excluding those with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment from services and spaces provided for the opposite sex

This is certainly what Lord Etherton seems to believe. And he also says in his speech that paragraph 27 that you quoted (along with paragraph 26) "are irrelevant, as they deal with sex discrimination."

Link to his speech:
hansard.parliament.uklords/2022-03-16/debates/84C9B6AA-0214-4CEF-A41D-302373BDC190/HealthAndCareBill#contribution-2C34DA23-A5AD-483E-ACB8-AF8A5C547F73

Oops Lord Etherton of course, not what I wrote!

@334bu

**Surely this question was missed by mistake and will be answered soon"

Good job I didn't hold my breath

So fuck your "it never happens" because what you really mean is "I don't care who it happens to."

The simple truth.

Some women - a clear minority

No-one believes this. I'm quite sure Robin doesn't either.

For decades, MPs have been trying to represent the views of their constituents in getting more sex segregation, not less.

And the current iteration of sexism hasn't changed any of it.

It's being addressed across every paper in the land, on radio stations, in interviews, blogs, podcasts, it's being put to every politician.

Every poll is overwhelmingly in favour of sex segregation. Otherwise, guess what, we wouldn't bloody well have it, would we?

If men didn't want it and the majority of women didn't want it, why on earth would it even exist 🙄

Honestly. It's no surprise to me, at least, that chapters of your book, Robin, were completely out of date as soon as it was published. You don't understand the law, and you're completely divorced from the general public.

If Robin really believed that a clear minority of women have an issue with losing single sex spaces, Robin likely wouldn’t have written a book of wishful thinking rather than objective legal analysis, and certainly would not be so invested in trying to prove women on Mumsnet wrong.

Also, I’m very surprised to see someone advocating to discount protecting people on account of “being in a minority”, while pursuing the goal of…protecting people who are in a tiny minority.

That makes absolutely no sense as a principle.

Personally, I believe that we should try our best to protect people in minorities, as far as we are able while not significantly infringing on the majority’s rights.

Kind of weird not to, as utilitarianism clearly has its limitations.

[quote MrsOvertonsWindow]I expect the NHS specifically arranged for this trans paedophile with many previous sex offences to be in a women's hospital ward while they used the wi fi to watch their extensive collection of child sex abuse images. Women are considered bigots if we fail to welcome Julie sleeping alongside us in hospital

thebridgehead.ca/2020/07/17/bbc-reports-on-disturbing-female-pedophilia-case-the-catch-shes-not-really-female/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3830943-aibu-to-think-that-a-paedophile-s-sex-is-actually-relevant-when-they-re-convicted[/quote]
JFC

Great article. Thank you, Emma, for your continued commitment.

So what we get from that is that Lord Etherton simply cannot read?!

Or he deliberately chooses to misrepresent the Act despite knowing how the Guidance Notes specifically clarify exemptions?!

His explanation is outrageous, risibly so. We can see it is. But RMW used precisely the same 180degree logic in that bookwotshewrote. So maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

When men think so little of women there are no depths to which they will not sink!

Worse! When such men consider women an inconvenience, something to be overstepped, they will sink even further.

@RobinMoiraWhite If you want more infomration on the rape that didn't happen, was just "some woman" talking try this thread.

Have the honesty to read it, to digest the contents and be completely professional in your undertsanding of it!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4507790-Hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-because-attacker-transgender

TLDR: Woman in hopital sys she has been raped, calls the police; hosputal says no rape cpudl have happened as there are no males there; Ooops! You forgot the CCTV!; A year later, and the woman is now being believed!

Disgusting doesn't cover it!

Go and try and understand what female people experience and feel. We get told over and over and over on these boards that if we'd just listen to a transwoman we'd understand and hand over our rights and not mind about our needs and feelings any more, we'd gladly put that male person's needs first.

Rational as this is, it seems rationality has nothing to do with this.

The expectation is that being heard, understanding, kindness and compassion are the entitlement of a sacred caste and these are to be supplied by service humans. There seems to be a complete absence of any expectation of reciprocity far less respect for the dignity of women and insight into our lived experience.

Sadly, it seems that talking about our lived experience, traumatic though it sometimes is, is to be deprecated as it 'flaunts privilege'.

@RobinMoiraWhite.
I am a biological female.
When I was young I was sexually assaulted by a biological man.i.e. a person with a penis.
I know he had a penis due to what he did.
I now feel vulnerable being in situations with males.i.e people with a penis.
I don't want intimate medical procedures being carried out by people with a penis.

I would not want to be on a hospital ward and find the person in the next bed had a penis.
Or in a women's' refuge.
Or in fact any facility which advertises its services for women only.
I have no doubt that won't suit you, but that is how I FEEL.
Are my feelings on the matter so worthless to you that they can be dismissed?
Have you no idea that I suffered trauma by what happened to me years ago?
I'll tell you this, no biological woman would be so heartless.
Do I wish any trans person harm? No, I don't because I can understand feelings. But their feelings should not take anything away from my safety as a biological woman.
And I will also state that in my previous employment I met men who said they were women and there were a few who were quite clearly very, very disturbed. I would not have wanted any biological woman to be alone with them.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Go and try and understand what female people experience and feel. We get told over and over and over on these boards that if we'd just listen to a transwoman we'd understand and hand over our rights and not mind about our needs and feelings any more, we'd gladly put that male person's needs first.

Rational as this is, it seems rationality has nothing to do with this.

The expectation is that being heard, understanding, kindness and compassion are the entitlement of a sacred caste and these are to be supplied by service humans. There seems to be a complete absence of any expectation of reciprocity far less respect for the dignity of women and insight into our lived experience.

Sadly, it seems that talking about our lived experience, traumatic though it sometimes is, is to be deprecated as it 'flaunts privilege'.

This is the conclusion I'm coming to, also.

Women are ignored, told there are no problems and that we have to accommodate those males who wish to use our spaces.

When we explain exactly why - often feeling pushed into making personal disclosures that we really shouldn't need to spell out - we're accused of 'weaponising our trauma'.

And the thing is that some of the people who purport to be appealing to 'kindness' only wish kindness to go in one direction. By 'be kind' they mean 'acquiesce' and they have no intention of reciprocating.

There is no kindness, compassion, nor even willingness to listen shown. I have yet to hear one of our visitors on this board express even the slightest sympathy for women's experiences.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Go and try and understand what female people experience and feel. We get told over and over and over on these boards that if we'd just listen to a transwoman we'd understand and hand over our rights and not mind about our needs and feelings any more, we'd gladly put that male person's needs first.

Rational as this is, it seems rationality has nothing to do with this.

The expectation is that being heard, understanding, kindness and compassion are the entitlement of a sacred caste and these are to be supplied by service humans. There seems to be a complete absence of any expectation of reciprocity far less respect for the dignity of women and insight into our lived experience.

Sadly, it seems that talking about our lived experience, traumatic though it sometimes is, is to be deprecated as it 'flaunts privilege'.

Quite.

And what do we know from the Relationships board and psychologists like Lundy Bancroft who specialise in relationships gone horribly wrong?

That where there is a strong imbalance in power, expectation and entitlement, where there is no reciprocation, where things are demanded in service as the due of the other person but not the right or entitlement of the service provider?

It is not a healthy relationship, or one that a woman should stay in.

I have yet to hear one of our visitors on this board express even the slightest sympathy for women's experiences.

I can easily find lots of expressions of dismissal, derision, denial, minimising and victim blaming though.

It's abundant.

[quote SamphiretheStickerist]**@RobinMoiraWhite If you want more infomration on the rape that didn't happen, was just "some woman" talking try this thread.

Have the honesty to read it, to digest the contents and be completely professional in your undertsanding of it!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4507790-Hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-because-attacker-transgender

TLDR: Woman in hopital sys she has been raped, calls the police; hosputal says no rape cpudl have happened as there are no males there; Ooops! You forgot the CCTV!; A year later, and the woman is now being believed!

Disgusting doesn't cover it![/quote]
Thanks for posting this, and atting, @RobinMoiraWhite I was thinking today about this thread and the one today, @RobinMoiraWhite comments please.... or do you only still care about men that say they are women, your mum must be so proud.

@Tabasco007 - from Robin's posts on this and other threads, it's pretty clear that Robin is only interested in what they want and doesn't give a damn about how it impacts women.

Yes Robin is all over these threads. I mistook Robin’s comments about ‘safeguarding’ being on this thread when they were on another. So many threads, so many upsetting comments.

Hi everyone,

We are closing this thread so we can take a look.

Did MNHQ put this one back up, or was it never actually taken down?

I mean, I can see why some might want it gone, so I am surprised to see it still/back here!

It was locked wasn’t it?

I wonder if the comment was meant to go on another thread

I was pretty about why this one in particular would come down

the unpleasant misogynist with seriously unpleasant views who visited this thread is utterly unapologetic about spreading their thoughts all over the board, and they're normally left to stand....