Emma Nicholson in the Times

[Igneococcus]

On single sex wards:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f6f6c84a-a499-11ec-b05a-8d7b276f1397?shareToken=1c8f4c99404e08ae113db7787fb3686e

@MrsOvertonsWindow

What's the name for someone demanding statistics that they and their mates have ensured are unavailable? As even the most dangerous of male born sex offenders is classed as a woman by the NHS if they say they're one then all incidents will be hushed up recorded as committed by a woman.

It puts me in mind of people who are entirely OK with the implementation of Lifton's 8 Criteria for Thought Reform.

And you have to wonder what sort of mindset then leads them to imagine that their opinion about anything to do with women should even be heard, much less addressed.

Oh no. We don't have to wonder really. We pretty much all know what kind of male does that.

An admirably clear piece by the Baroness. Hopefully the powers that be in the NHS will start to realise their massive blunder.

I wonder if it would be possible for people to ask for their medical records to be corrected to fill in the sex field and get rid of the 'gender' one, unless the latter was relevant supplementary information?

Once again natal women are being asked to demonstrate what harm it does them to share their spaces with male people when they are vulnerable.
Why is the onus on us? If one group wants to change the current legal position (I.e that those born male even if they have a GRC that says they’re now female can lawfully be excluded from single sex spaces) then why isn’t the onus on them to demonstrate why the change should be made?
And no, mantras such as ‘TWAW’ or because of internal feelings of wanting to be included are not sufficient to warrant the loss of privacy, dignity and safety for women or in some cases exclusion from their own spaces.

maybe though we are being treated to posts from a visitor using MN to see what is happening in a tribunal and this is a weak attempt at distraction from seeing Ben Cooper QC at work. Getting ready for next month (or have I got the date wrong!)

This is what women staying no looks like.

A fiction is being imposed on other patients, their concerns disregarded, even being smeared as bigotry. Nurses are left in a difficult position.

This is insulting to patients and a safeguarding disaster.

For 35 years, debates in parliament have said there should be single-sex wards. There was a huge fight 20 years ago to stop mixed-sex wards. Yet here we are: the NHS, captured by lobbyists, is implementing, outside its authority, a one-sided policy.

These hard-won rights are vital for patients at their most vulnerable.

Thank you, Baroness.

The answer is no.

Thank goodness peers are continuing to pursue this.

For those who may not have seen this from over 4 years ago:
"Terrified patient treated like ‘transphobic bigot’"

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d44f95cc-f8ab-11e7-9644-5d5d116c6d89?shareToken=5878ce2d3677e59455984b1e9a410248

Does the Baroness know about the above-mentioned instance of maternity leave being given to an ejaculator? And the person who gave birth got paternity leave?

@EricCartmansMagicalUnderpants

What sort of person would seek to remove the birth recovery time from a woman and send her back to work early, so that the male can take her recovery time and use it for himself. That's fucking grim.

Someone who has absolutely no idea what it's like to be an actual woman...

I assume that was at the couple’s own earnest wish, not forced on them.Whether the transman/mother realised in retrospect that maternity leave was needed to recover from pregnancy and birth is another matter.

And even if they did, they wouldn’t be the only person to work against their own interests. People do some strange things in pursuit of a deeply held belief.

@Helleofabore

maybe though we are being treated to posts from a visitor using MN to see what is happening in a tribunal and this is a weak attempt at distraction from seeing Ben Cooper QC at work. Getting ready for next month (or have I got the date wrong!)

Stonewall has a senior counsel for that case who is leading RMW if I understand the matter correctly?

We might not have much of an opportunity to see RMW in action during the proceedings.

@RobinMoiraWhite

So that is an account of a difficulty on one occasion where a known safeguarding risk was not actioned. And with that you want to alter a policy for every trans person’s n in every NHS hospital?

You might want to be careful about knee-jerk policy making based on single instances.

That isn’t evidence-based policy making.

Why do the feelings of males who identify as women matter more than women's feelings?

Women are being harmed but even if they weren't why should the feelings of trans women result in women's wards being mixed sex?

Trans women should absolutely feel safe in hospitals but so should women. It is very telling that the feelings of women who are not male don't matter to you.

It's perfectly simple. Men in men's wards, women in women's wards. I don't give a shit how people "identify" You can't identify out of biology.

Horrific. Women's bodies are essential as incubators. Very inconvenient and no doubt many males would prefer it if a mechanical substitute could be found, but as things stand only a woman can gestate and give birth to a child. However, once born, that child can be removed from her and handed over to the 'commissioning parents' who 'used' her as a surrogate. She can be persuaded that she doesn't want to breastfeed and her male partner can take a shedload of drugs to induce lactation, and who cares what that does to the baby. If the female parent identifies as a man and the male parent identifies as a woman, the male can appropriate the maternity leave designed to give the new mother recovery time from pregnancy and birth and once again who cares about the baby's need to be close to her mother in those first few weeks.

@WelcomeMarch, I'm sure it was at the couple's own request, I hope they weren't coerced in anyway. But they should not have been allowed that choice because in a civilised country it is recognised that the female body goes through massive changes in pregnancy and birth, needing time to recover. Two weeks is not enough. None of us know how we will feel, post delivery. We may recover well, we may not. This couple were all about validation, I expect, totally ignoring reality. I do worry that it might cause a precedent to be set, too.

@RobinMoiraWhite

OK, but where is the evidence of the present NHS arrangements causing harm?

It actually has an adverse impact on transpeople themselves when they are recorded as their gender, and therefore, as an example, aren't called for cervical smears etc.

If someone undergoes gender reassignment surgery, they really mean it when they say they identify as the other gender and there may be a grey area for discussion.

There is no room for discussion when a mean wears a dress and claims he's a woman. He is not and he goes on a male ward and into a male prison. As far as prison is concerned, there's always the option not to commit a serious crime, anyway.

mean = man!

So fuck your "it never happens" because what you really mean is "I don't care who it happens to."

Exactly. It's an I don't care women are in distress. I don't care someone was caught downloading disgusting images in a woman's ward. I don't care someone else complained about being not let into the women's ward, and when they were they assaulted the women in there.

I don't care, I don't care, as long as I get what I want.

@WelcomeMarch

I assume that was at the couple’s own earnest wish, not forced on them.Whether the transman/mother realised in retrospect that maternity leave was needed to recover from pregnancy and birth is another matter.

And even if they did, they wouldn’t be the only person to work against their own interests. People do some strange things in pursuit of a deeply held belief.

Where's the baby in all this? What's best for them immediately post-birth?

Or are they just unpaid extras in their parents' tedious drama?

Fair point.

I’m of an age that only got 6 weeks’ automatic leave, and I know people who were proud to say that they’d only taken 2. Not saying that’s a good thing.

Surely trans people will have specific healthcare issues - whether they are ‘in name’ or have had medical/surgical procedures to make changes to their bodies.

Medical wards ought to be on the basis of sex only (plus specialism where needed ie post surgery). Not how you feel/wish to be seen as. Why on earth should it be - and who decides that people can choose their ward and are allowed to do this, no questions?

Someone who has absolutely no idea what it's like to be an actual woman...

This is true. I would add to that, someone who doesn't care what it's like to be an actual woman. Apart from their version of womanhood. Which takes all the bits they see as best, and leaving the shit bits and more for actual women.