Emma Watson's dig at JKR

[IamSarah]

It appears she said at the BAFTAs 'I am here for all of the witches... bar one'

Disappointing but not unexpected.

twitter.com/emwatsonbestof/status/1503505167207084034?s=21

Aah apologies to fenulla for taking that comment at face value.

@fenulla

*so what's the reason anybody is trans then?.." They're not. It's not a thing that people ARE

And this one? Why does this one not mean what it says?

Again CONTEXT You were part of that debate, @BlindGirlMcSqueaky you know what was being avoided, sorry, discussed.

Of course

And this one? Why does this one not mean what it says?

Exactly, doesnt matter how many examples you post, you'll be told it doesn't count
That it doesn't mean what you think it does.

By context, you mean the so called discussion that it swiftly got turned into to explain away - ah, see. Before we can decide whether trans exists, first we can come to an agreement on what it means to me trans.
Define trans

It is said
Right.
There.
Some people don't think it exists.
It's gaslighting, pure and simple.

That started when all the "We don't know everything / your definition of trans means nothing / me? I don't have to" bollocks got started
Well at least we can agree on that it was a load of bollocks!
You do realise people can read the thread, right?!

@EeeICouldRipATissue

And this one? Why does this one not mean what it says?

Exactly, doesnt matter how many examples you post, you'll be told it doesn't count
That it doesn't mean what you think it does.

By context, you mean the so called discussion that it swiftly got turned into to explain away - ah, see. Before we can decide whether trans exists, first we can come to an agreement on what it means to me trans.
Define trans

It is said
Right.
There.
Some people don't think it exists.
It's gaslighting, pure and simple.

Oh a hundred percent. It's literally written there, but of course it doesn't mean it says!

And they wonder why people aren't queuing up to get onto the board.

And they wonder why people aren't queuing up to get onto the board.

Do you mean this thread? If so, it would be because you and one other have mired it in utter gobbledygook and now it’s just you two talking to each other in nonsensical monologues

@noraclavicle

And they wonder why people aren't queuing up to get onto the board.

Do you mean this thread? If so, it would be because you and one other have mired it in utter gobbledygook and now it’s just you two talking to each other in nonsensical monologues

Ironic when it's usually some key posters posting the same opinion written in a different way and everyone else on hands and knees praising them and responding with "this!!!!!"

Ironic

Very!

Jesus, the state of this thread.

Not a single coherent argument from those who believe TWAW, just a load of derailing, same old same old.

Honestly, put forward an argument or just don't bother. Why are you here if you don't want to engage jn debate?

@noraclavicle

And they wonder why people aren't queuing up to get onto the board.

Do you mean this thread? If so, it would be because you and one other have mired it in utter gobbledygook and now it’s just you two talking to each other in nonsensical monologues

What balderdash!

all we can do is hope that conversations like these have an impact on some of the people accessing this thread and makes a difference

Oh, they do - just not in the way you mean. I spent a long time reading and not posting, and what I saw was that those popping over here from the TRA camp have absolutely nothing in the way of reasoning skills, critical thinking or self-awareness. It's 100% pigeons playing chess. Blundering across the board, knocking over the pieces and thinking you've won. Your "arguments" on this thread have been laughable. Laughable.

Balderdash? Well indeed. I came by for a peruse and it’s like Stanley Unwin has taken you over!

I was one of the posters who agreed with @fenulla's comment re. 'being trans'. I also tried to engage with you both about this yesterday, but got zero reply. I don't get it, neither of you wanted to discuss what is was meant by 'being trans' and now you are shouting 'gaslighting!'?

I know you will not reply to this, but anyway:
You said you were interested in 'why people who are trans feel the opposite sex'.

This seems to imply that 'being trans' is the cause, and feeling uncomfortable with your own sex is the consequence of this.
I see it the other way around. Dome people feel uncomortable ith their own sex, ie feel that they are the opposite sex. And some of those feel they need to transition, and become trans.

This allows you to think that there might be different explanations for that feeling of disconfort. And very likely, different ways of dealing with it. Some migth need to transition, some might resolve those feelings with other type of help.

I really do not think it helps to simply use the blank statements 'some people ARE trans' without exploring what are the roots of the problem. It is certainly not helping young females.

Not a single coherent argument from those who believe TWAW, just a load of derailing, same old same old.

How on earth you can say that with presumably a straight face is staggering.
How on earth can you not see its the '' debate me!
Define trans, single sex, etc etc
Are the ones that are doing the derailing?!
Not us.
You do realise that this thread isn't anything about that right?!
It's about Emma and her Baftas words.
You're right about one thing though it is a shit show of a thread and a perfect example and show up of it all on here.

@Hasselhoffsheadband

Jesus, the state of this thread.

Not a single coherent argument from those who believe TWAW, just a load of derailing, same old same old.

Honestly, put forward an argument or just don't bother. Why are you here if you don't want to engage jn debate?

Ah yes, more singling out. Also, a nice assumption of our thoughts bearing in mind I haven't actually shared what I think about TWAW. Have you not seen that a couple of the posters are engaging and discussing, but you just don't like what you're reading, therefore it's nonsensical.

For those of you questioning what is going on on these threads to bring people like myself to say it's not a welcome place, it is right here in front of you.

I don't get it, neither of you wanted to discuss what is was meant by 'being trans' and now you are shouting 'gaslighting!'?

Because they have both repeatedly said that this thread isn't even about that, it's about Emma and the Baftas, they didn't come here to debate whether or not TWAW yet you're just pushing and pushing them into doing it, then throwing toys out of the pram calling their posts incoherant and derailing when they repeatedly state "I didn't come here to debate about that".

@WorkingOnMyNightCheese

all we can do is hope that conversations like these have an impact on some of the people accessing this thread and makes a difference

Oh, they do - just not in the way you mean. I spent a long time reading and not posting, and what I saw was that those popping over here from the TRA camp have absolutely nothing in the way of reasoning skills, critical thinking or self-awareness. It's 100% pigeons playing chess. Blundering across the board, knocking over the pieces and thinking you've won. Your "arguments" on this thread have been laughable. Laughable.

You mean people don't agree with you.

But we're expected to come on here and say what we think, even though all that means is being insulted? The whole thread is about that issue. Calling intelligent women stupid because they have a difference of opinion to you.

The only impact that this thread and plenty of others like it are having, is pushing away women who are seeking a place to talk about these things. Do you have any idea of the number of spaces that have been created by women who were bullied off of this board, or who simply lurked and didn't like seeing people being shut down and called idiots for not having the same opinion? Women with a VERY wide range of opinions who are somehow still able to have discussions without it resulting in insults? But no, no problems here.

@LaTisaniere - thanks for confirming that my posts are not appearing only on my screen!

I do not think that's entirely true though, as eg. @BlindGirlMcSqueakylind, also said:
I'm eager to hear from the omniscient women who have completed science on the thread then, for the precise reason why people report spending their lives feeling like they are in the wrong body?

and similar requests that were then ignored.

[quote autienotnaughty]@Waitwhat23 feminism is important to me and it's a subject I research and will continue to do so. The fact is trans men and women are recognised by law. If posters have a genuine concern for womens safety wouldn't an open discussion about the safety and respect of all women be a better discussion rather than one that involves attacking women.[/quote]
This comment epitomises to me what has gone wrong with this (frankly bizarre) thread. It was in response to a comment of mine that it might be a good idea for that poster to read up a bit about the terminology, discussion and background of the general discussion so that they were able to discuss, with the knowledge and background behind them, with the posters on this board, many of whom are very well versed in it.

Instead, the reply is yet another general reply which doesn't actually address any specific issue or engage in any discussion point which has come up but is instead doing a broad brushstroke of generalisation. It also shows no engagement with any of the many threads which explain why women have genuine concerns about safety. The excellent 'Break it Down for Me' thread has been linked at least once. It's a great summary of many of these concerns, with evidence and background.

The posters who continue to complain that they are being attacked for having a different viewpoint - your 'debate' has been poor and seems to have mostly consisted of 'you're all so mean' and 'feminism, eh?!'

I'm not sure if we're meant to apologise for your poor debating skills. If you find the discussion here too robust, I would suggest you avoid other forums like Overit where they are a lot more direct.

@IamAporcupine

I was one of the posters who agreed with *@fenulla*'s comment re. 'being trans'. I also tried to engage with you both about this yesterday, but got zero reply. I don't get it, neither of you wanted to discuss what is was meant by 'being trans' and now you are shouting 'gaslighting!'?

I know you will not reply to this, but anyway:
You said you were interested in 'why people who are trans feel the opposite sex'.

This seems to imply that 'being trans' is the cause, and feeling uncomfortable with your own sex is the consequence of this.
I see it the other way around. Dome people feel uncomortable ith their own sex, ie feel that they are the opposite sex. And some of those feel they need to transition, and become trans.

This allows you to think that there might be different explanations for that feeling of disconfort. And very likely, different ways of dealing with it. Some migth need to transition, some might resolve those feelings with other type of help.

I really do not think it helps to simply use the blank statements 'some people ARE trans' without exploring what are the roots of the problem. It is certainly not helping young females.

This illustrates why we need to know what people mean when they say someone 'is trans'. You seem to be using it to mean someone who is undergoing a physical transition. More often it is used to mean someone who self-identifies as transgender, whether or not they have undergone any physical changes or even whether or not they intend to. Hence the idea of very young 'transgender' children.

Actually, reading your post again, I'm not sure if you mean a physical transition when you say people 'transition and become trans'. Is that what you mean, or are you also talking about making superficial changes (such as clothes etc)?

So is the general consensus that only people who have absolutely all of the knowledge on the subject, know all of the terms, have all of the links of articles etc stashed away, have debating skills (that have to be at least as good as yours) can participate on this board? Because that's more and more what it's sounding like. Comments of "your arguments just aren't good enough" "your debating skills aren't good enough" "you don't know enough" are leading me here. If that's the case and this is not a place for anyone without all of those skills, only Professional Feminists, then fair enough.

If that is not the case, then I think that the comments of posters lacking intelligence, knowledge, the perfect terms and debating skills should stop, as they're being used as reasons for not engaging.