Emma Watson's dig at JKR

[IamSarah]

It appears she said at the BAFTAs 'I am here for all of the witches... bar one'

Disappointing but not unexpected.

twitter.com/emwatsonbestof/status/1503505167207084034?s=21

When there is a poster, or a few posters who disagree with the general opinion of the thread, it almost always descends into insults, questioning that persons intelligence and them being told they're not welcome here - this thread is a prime example.

I haven't seen any of that on this thread. Perhaps the insults were in the deleted posts? Nobody has been told they're not welcome. A poster who has said they don't want to get into a discussion has been told they have the option of leaving the thread.

I'd love to see some good arguments from the 'other side' which would really challenge my views, but I have yet to see any on these threads.

[quote autienotnaughty]@Somanysocks how is being inclusive of trans women impacting on you as a women? [/quote]
@Somanysocks it impacts me when I can't request a female nurse to do my smear test because that isn't "inclusive"

It impacts my daughters when they have to share a public toilet with a transwomen who still has a penis.

It impacts women of certain religions who's religion dictates they can't be around men during certain activities and in certain spaces.

It impacts women in prison who may be forced to share a cell with a man who has been arrested for rape/sexual assault

It impacts women and girls in hospital who are forced to share a ward with men when they are vulnerable

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

I stated my view on it once. And I made it very clear that I wouldn't discuss it and explained my reason why.

If you're trying to teach women not to talk about their opinion because it's not worth the hassle, it's worked.

LOL. Are you familiar with Twitter? With the doxxing of JKR? With the young swimmers in the US who are afraid to put their names to their feelings about having to compete with someone that they are obliged to call 'she' who has cock and balls in place and enjoys all the benefits of having gone through male puberty? With the story of Kathleen Stock, hounded from her job?

If no, you should be.
If yes, consider why we might be a bit vocal here, where we can sort-of speak our minds. Why we expect people to back up what they say.

@OldCrone

When there is a poster, or a few posters who disagree with the general opinion of the thread, it almost always descends into insults, questioning that persons intelligence and them being told they're not welcome here - this thread is a prime example.

I haven't seen any of that on this thread. Perhaps the insults were in the deleted posts? Nobody has been told they're not welcome. A poster who has said they don't want to get into a discussion has been told they have the option of leaving the thread.

I'd love to see some good arguments from the 'other side' which would really challenge my views, but I have yet to see any on these threads.

That's what happens when you create an echo chamber.

@Hasselhoffsheadband

Mumsnet does not allow personal attacks, they also don't allow people to copy stuff from previous threads, so if you report MN will delete that sort of stuff.

I want alternative views to debate with. I sometimes get tired of the same posters saying the same things too, I am confident in my arguments now and I like to debate them with people who don't agree with me on this issue.

But as soon as that happens and I start discussing those posters decide there is 'no point in discussing it'. This has happened a few times now and I have never insulted anyone or told them they shouldn't be here.

I'm also looking for a good debate with people who don't agree with me. But again we just have posters saying they don't want to get into a discussion (not sure why they're on a discussion board if that's how they feel) and claiming that they've been insulted and told to leave.

You see your opinion as an irrefutable fact. For that reason, it's pointless to discuss it with you.

Yes, I do, after a LOT of research and thought. I started with the same opinions as you, you know. And I debated and listened. And read, learned and questioned.

And, even though I now feel I've got to the truth of the matter, I'm still open to listening to ideas that go against mine, and debating them with an open mind.

It's striking that the people here who disagree with us flounce. They generally don't stick around to debate. And I really don't think that's because people aren't nice to them. I think it's because - as we're seeing in Maya's trial - gender ideology just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

This is a stupid question but I don't even get the comment! What would it mean in relation to JKR?

Having watched the clip it feels like of it was planned it could be a dig to JKR and if it were of the moment it's a dig to Rebel?

I just don't understand what it's actually meant to mean.

Personally I lost all respect for Emma and the others when they lost respect for JKR & all women

To be fair the posters didn’t create the echo chamber…MNHQ did, I think that when the odd thread gets on to AIBU there is more pushback and debate

I’d prefer to hear a range of views but when its pushed into one ‘small’ area then the conversation is stilted, its a bit like cat owners posting on the litter tray. Its generally full of people who want to talk about cats but its only if a ‘should cats be licenced’ sort of thread is posted on mumsnet that you get a range of views

Oh bum….that last Mumsnet should read AIBU

I personally like when people disagree with me because it gives me a chance to learn

Many posters on these boards feel this way. What generally happens though is that regular posters provide links to studies, papers and research and are repeatedly provided with heavy emotional manipulation, censure, lecturing and misinterpreted ‘evidence’ in return. Generally from posters with a history of doing so, under different usernames. In fact, some posters have no intention of engaging towards a positive discussion. They tend to eventually end up banned.

I look forward to seeing posters come with new studies, new statistics and new thought directions from any poster. Bring it on I say! That is how we learn and progress.

I find it interesting though to read how people posting how regular posters might ‘resort to insults and question intelligence’. Because those posters never mention the constant stream of insults targeted at regular posters (often by the posters that are being insulted in return or having their intelligence questioned). Slurs and insults such as ‘pearl clutchers’, ‘anti-trans’ (despite how many posters have trans people in their every day life), ‘bigots’, ‘transphobes’, ‘prudes’, ‘vile’, ‘nazi’s’, ‘fascists’, ‘fearmongers’ and do on. The list is endless. Yes, some of those posts are deleted so reading threads often presents a very one sided view. I can assure everyone that they are as regular and constant as clockwork. They happen on a daily basis.

Is the lack of mentioning those posts and only focusing on the ‘mean feminist’ posts significant? And what does that say about proportionality and prejudice of the commentator?

There are quite a number of posters on these boards who don’t agree, there is no ‘hive mind’ here, despite the many posts declaring this an echo chamber or whatever.

If the evidence people provide is unconvincing in a robust debate, it is unconvincing. One thing that the board has is many very interested posters and readers who will read and disseminate what is posted.

There are two feminism boards. As pp have said they were split because some posters could not seem to scroll past titles of threads that were not of interest. So there are now two. If posters cannot find interesting discussions on either, then start threads. Other posters will either join in or not.

It seems churlish of posters to lament the demise of feminism on MN when MN have gone out of their way to provide two boards so that people who cannot scroll past thread titles to find one they want to read can do so now with comfort.

Besides which, feminism has never been constrained to the FWR board. It can be found in many boards over the forum.

So yes please, bring on the disagreements, sometimes with well thought out and evidenced support.

Not one person on this forum owes anyone agreement on an opinion or that an opinion will be left unchallenged.

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky
That's cool, you won't be having it with me though"
😐
What do you want then?

There are quite a number of posters on these boards who don’t agree, there is no ‘hive mind’ here, despite the many posts declaring this an echo chamber or whatever

Absolutely

And thats the funny thing, there have been a number of posters calling the ‘regular’ posters on here anti trans, hive mind etc and quite often they have the exact same views as me (and other posters obvs) we just disagree on how it should be ‘solved’

@TheChild you tagged me instead of autie, I agree with you.

That's what happens when you create an echo chamber.

You have been invited to put your point of view. You have declined, saying that you've stated your view once and you don't want to get into a discussion.

We haven't created an echo chamber. You are entirely welcome to join the discussion whatever your opinion. If I see any posts which are abusive towards you or any other poster I will report them.

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

To be fair the posters didn’t create the echo chamber…MNHQ did, I think that when the odd thread gets on to AIBU there is more pushback and debate

I’d prefer to hear a range of views but when its pushed into one ‘small’ area then the conversation is stilted, its a bit like cat owners posting on the litter tray. Its generally full of people who want to talk about cats but its only if a ‘should cats be licenced’ sort of thread is posted on mumsnet that you get a range of views

No, you got this section created because people were fed up with the topic.

always think threads like this must be very interesting for the lurkers who see the flouncing as soon as a difficult question is asked!

You don't seem to be getting it though - t it's nothing to do with flouncing, as in the poster has repeatedly said they're not here for that discussion.
Which is understandable, as it started out as a Baftas and emma Watson thread.
It's the equivalent of waltzing into the Litter Tray section, somebody asking about what type of doggy food is best (kind of like "I like Chum, what about you, do you recommend this?") and someone coming in '' I want to talk about training them though, talk about MY thing instead!
No, not like that.
That's not the right answer.
What do you mean you won't? That just means you can't.
So what do you think about my thing again, I only want to know how to best get them to sit/lie down/whatever. Why won't you debate me?!
OP....

.....

Dude, I just wanted to know if Chum or Pal were the best brands 😭😂

@OldCrone

That's what happens when you create an echo chamber.

You have been invited to put your point of view. You have declined, saying that you've stated your view once and you don't want to get into a discussion.

We haven't created an echo chamber. You are entirely welcome to join the discussion whatever your opinion. If I see any posts which are abusive towards you or any other poster I will report them.

I don't want to hear all the reasons why you think you're right and I'm wrong. I know you're just dying to go there, but it's a no. It was a no yesterday and it's a no today. It'll be a no for the rest of my life.

If you want to discuss it, I'm sure there are tons of people on here who are ready and waiting to pat you on the back for how right you are if you start a thread on the subject.

I'm also looking for a good debate with people who don't agree with me. But again we just have posters saying they don't want to get into a discussion

Yes, like Yvette Cooper and their rabbit hole comment the other week. Just another way of shutting down debate. But the reality is that I don’t think she had the confidence to argue her view. Whatever it is/was.

That seems to be common. And we are seeing it in the Maya Forstater tribunal.

No one seems to be able to state how to clearly articulate the issues to support women’s rights and the very definition of women in a way that doesn’t cause people supporting gender identity offense.

And those supporting the gender identity movement don’t seem to either care or to understand how that affects women. Or they don’t understand and they don’t care as well.

@Waitwhat23 feminism is important to me and it's a subject I research and will continue to do so. The fact is trans men and women are recognised by law. If posters have a genuine concern for womens safety wouldn't an open discussion about the safety and respect of all women be a better discussion rather than one that involves attacking women.

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

But do you not see that by not stating your reasons, you are creating the echo chamber? You’re withholding what could be important or interesting information. Why? Or is it the usual ‘no debate’?

No, you got this section created because people were fed up with the topic.

You've got that wrong. Most regular posters here didn't want the split. MNHQ decided to make the split anyway.

I actually preferred the single feminism board. I often forget to look on the feminist chat board now, which is a shame as I learnt a lot from reading about other feminist issues when it was a single feminism board.

And it irritates me when threads which were started on another part of the site like AIBU end up being moved here. It's much better when more people see what's happening and there is more engagement from those with different opinions who don't look at the feminism board.

There's only one side attacking women.

Personally I lost all respect for Emma and the others when they lost respect for JKR & all women

I don't think they are losing respect for her?
It's perfectly possible to still have respect for someone but profoundly disagree with their views and still be allowed to express yours.
When you say all women, it's clearly not all women though is it?
As a lot clearly agree with them and not JK.
It seems a bit arrogant assumption to claim to speak for all women.

[quote Gosports]@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

But do you not see that by not stating your reasons, you are creating the echo chamber? You’re withholding what could be important or interesting information. Why? Or is it the usual ‘no debate’?[/quote]
Because it's a foregone conclusion what will happen. I can't be bothered with it.