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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Will female swimmers ever win Olympic Gold again? Thomas aims for top…

134 replies

LunaLights · 03/03/2022 23:52

Thomas plans to swim in the Olympics.

Thomas, who has applied to law school, now has her sights set on representing Team USA at the 2024 Olympic Games in Paris. But first she’ll swim in the NCAA Women’s Division I Swimming and Diving Championships starting on March 16 in Atlanta, where she’s favoured to win the 200 and 500-yard freestyle events.

www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/im-not-a-man-transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas-pushes-back-against-critics/news-story/5a762ebbd6577790ffaccc953af76ec2

OP posts:
Jackjack0962 · 04/03/2022 00:03

No they won’t. And if it continues there will be no women in sport at all just cheating men.
Maybe that’s what it will take for the madness to stop. Women's sport just full of men.

Liar Thomas won’t like it once he’s beaten by other men.

OperationDessertStorm · 04/03/2022 00:19

“We’re not going to lose her”

“Not everyone has been supportive”

“Pushing back against critics”

Its Gold medal winning emotional manipulation.

YouSayYesISayNo · 04/03/2022 00:50

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StopStartStop · 04/03/2022 01:26

Reminds me if the playground chant "Li-a, Li-a, yer bum's on fie-er!"

Lia is a liar. A man cannot be a woman.

It's going to take phenomenal self-sacrifice from women swimmers to put a stop to this. As every race starts, women placed against men need to sit down and refuse. Their replacements need to do the same. Audience members need to stand and turn their backs every time a man appears in a women's event.

TheCurrywurstPrion · 04/03/2022 01:41

”Thomas, an economics major originally from Texas, said she started questioning her identity while at Westlake High School in Austin.”

So late onset then. Certainly not a boy who believed he was a girl from a very young age.

Misstache · 04/03/2022 02:18

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Butterfly44 · 04/03/2022 02:32

They need their own category - should add in two more along side male/female - transgender females and transgender males. Then it's fair.

JellySaurus · 04/03/2022 06:55

@Butterfly44

They need their own category - should add in two more along side male/female - transgender females and transgender males. Then it's fair.
Why? Is there a category for religious athletes? Or for Q Anon athletes? Or for athletes with body dysphoria?
FrippEnos · 04/03/2022 07:07

JellySaurus

Is that a serious question?

JellySaurus · 04/03/2022 07:15

Sports is divided according to physiological categories, not belief categories. There is no more reason to create categories for athletes according to their gender beliefs than there is to create categories according to their other beliefs.

LondonWolf · 04/03/2022 07:17

@StopStartStop

Reminds me if the playground chant "Li-a, Li-a, yer bum's on fie-er!"

Lia is a liar. A man cannot be a woman.

It's going to take phenomenal self-sacrifice from women swimmers to put a stop to this. As every race starts, women placed against men need to sit down and refuse. Their replacements need to do the same. Audience members need to stand and turn their backs every time a man appears in a women's event.

This is the only thing that would work but it will never happen. I saw a nauseating photo of multiple of the other competing women crowding round "Lia" after a win - one wearing a trans face mask - and I honestly felt despair. There's enough support and acceptance that Lia and other men will feel justified in what they're doing and it will continue. I've been speaking up against this for years but that photo honestly made me think what is the point? When the actual natal women being robbed won't do anything.
Zerogravity · 04/03/2022 07:17

Why? Is there a category for religious athletes? Or for Q Anon athletes? Or for athletes with body dysphoria?

Exactly. We don't need another category. Sex categories are fair. If you believe in reincarnation or innate gender identity or souls or whatever, it doesn't change reality. No-one is excluded by categorization by sex.

WarriorN · 04/03/2022 07:21

If lia gets to the Olympics, this will be what demonstrates how unfair it is.

The physicality can't be ignored.

WarriorN · 04/03/2022 07:24

Especially as I think many assume that a trans woman goes through surgery etc. There's so much info now about this person that it will be v difficult for the world stage to see anything other than a male body competing.

Tontostitis · 04/03/2022 07:25

Lis is 6 ft 4 inches with a back twice the width of the girls.

OperationDessertStorm · 04/03/2022 07:25

But we do already have groups specifically to encourage people from different communities ie LGBT or Muslim specific football teams, Paralympics to highlight disabled inclusion in sport, under 12s or over 35s teams to allow for fairness and increased participation of different age groups. If they were seeking specific LGBT groups or adding to mixed sex groups (with clear rules) there’s a clear precedent.

What we don’t do is completely remove a (protected attribute) category for a disadvantaged group because of the emergence of another disadvantaged group.

BluerThanRobinsEggs · 04/03/2022 07:31

Swimming is like any other sport: someone is going through the rulebook line by line and seeing where they can push back. So like when all the F1 teams start using a new funny wing - every team is going to be on the look out for a man who is up to swim as a woman for as long as it takes to win - or until they change the rules to catch up. The problem here is inclusion/be kind and someone got to the rulebook and anyway besides it's only wimmin's sport so who cares.

SerenadeOfTheSchoolRun · 04/03/2022 07:36

But if a trans man was taking testosterone they presumably wouldn’t be allowed in the woman’s category and also wouldn’t be competitive in the men’s category so a trans man’s category could be a good thing.

I guess also that a trans woman taking hormones would not be competitive in the men’s category but would have an unfair advantage in the women’s category so again a different category would be a possibility.

These categories would not be based on beliefs but on physical differences due to hormone use.

WouldIwasShookspeared · 04/03/2022 07:40

It's amazing how many average male competitors realise they are actually women and go on to win medals. I wonder why sport attracts such a large number of people trapped in the wrong, non winning, bodies. Someone should research that.

Zerogravity · 04/03/2022 07:42

If they were seeking specific LGBT groups or adding to mixed sex groups (with clear rules) there’s a clear precedent.
I think you are mixing up different things. We don't have LGBT teams competing in high-level competitions because there is no need. Being gay has nothing to do with athletic ability, sex does. If people want to be on a LGBT for social reasons that is up to them. Paralympics and age categories are all to enable fair conditions. You can't expect 6 year old football players to play against grown men or wheelchair-using basketball players to play competitively against able-bodies ones. Gender identity is totally different. It has no clear definition, not everyone has one, nobody can see it or measure it, it has no bearing on your ability to do sport. In short, it has no place in defining sporting categories.

Dinoteeth · 04/03/2022 07:45

@Butterfly44

They need their own category - should add in two more along side male/female - transgender females and transgender males. Then it's fair.
No it should be Open category and Female.

Trans should be able to compete in open. Why do we need a category dedicated to men?

TheAbbotOfUnreason · 04/03/2022 07:48

@Tontostitis

Lis is 6 ft 4 inches with a back twice the width of the girls.
USA Swimming trans rules means that Lia will need to convince them that Lia doesn’t benefit from male physical development that gives them a competitive advantage over women.

At 6’4” with massive shoulders, good luck with that.

TheGreatATuin · 04/03/2022 07:48

Lia is an absolute boon for our side. The US is far behind on the gender debate. The higher Lia flies, along with all the sporting bodies shutting down discussion about it, the faster the US will peak.
Laurel Hubbard was bad, but Hubbard was also middle aged and in a far more over looked sport in NZ.
I hate to say it but I suspect Lia might help turn the tide in the US faster than any feminist voice might ever do.

dementedma · 04/03/2022 07:58

Just because he believes he is a woman, does not make him a woman.
Men competing in womens sports is grossly unfair.

JellySaurus · 04/03/2022 08:01

*No it should be Open category and Female.

Trans should be able to compete in open. Why do we need a category dedicated to men?*

As usual, women lose out. Or, in this context, perhaps I should say females lose out.

So transgender males are provided for, but not transgender females. Where would they compete? Transgender females taking testosterone would rightly be barred from the Women's class, and have as much hope of success in the Open class as women do against TW in the Women's class. Probably even less, as TW in the Women's class tend to be mediocre athletes.

Athletes generally have to make choices over what is more important to them: their sport or recreational drugs, their sport or religious practice, their sport or their social life. This is no different. There are currently female athletes with trans identity, who do not take any gender-affirming drugs purely so that they can continue to compete. But males with atrans identity will not have to make this choice?