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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Will female swimmers ever win Olympic Gold again? Thomas aims for top…

134 replies

LunaLights · 03/03/2022 23:52

Thomas plans to swim in the Olympics.

Thomas, who has applied to law school, now has her sights set on representing Team USA at the 2024 Olympic Games in Paris. But first she’ll swim in the NCAA Women’s Division I Swimming and Diving Championships starting on March 16 in Atlanta, where she’s favoured to win the 200 and 500-yard freestyle events.

www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/im-not-a-man-transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas-pushes-back-against-critics/news-story/5a762ebbd6577790ffaccc953af76ec2

OP posts:
MoltenLasagne · 09/03/2022 08:19

[quote 334bu]www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/asterisk-needed-symbol-would-define-lia-thomas-unfair-advantage-at-ncaa-championships/[/quote]
That was a great read. How big is this magazine in the swimming world?

GonadTheGaul · 10/03/2022 08:30

Or unless like Emily Bridges a series of accidents puts paid to their pole position as a distinct possibility for a medal in Paris so they fast forward the transition they had previously been happy to delay until after Paris to grab the possibility of a medal as a transwoman.

With Thomas everyone is starting to see the relative lack of effort needed to win the races. WIth Bridges we see an interesting story being played out in the media. In 2020 there was this article www.skysports.com/more-sports/cycling/news/15264/12101251/emily-bridges-coming-out-as-trans-in-cycling-is-a-crucial-step-on-my-journey with this quote

"To help achieve this, I'm going to be part of research into the effect that a medical transition has on athletic performance. This will, as far as I'm aware, be the first time that an elite-level international athlete has done this. I understand this will be extremely useful research. I really want to demonstrate what effect hormone replacement therapy has on the body, and how it massively changes athletic performance in multiple ways.I know that people will have questions about fairness. I feel I have an opportunity to show that the existing eligibility rules for trans athletes in competition are appropriate."
(my bold)

Just last week there was this article informing the cycling world that Bridges will be in the women's races soon, but it's fair because look - there's a graph (n=1) showing a dramatic drop in performance! www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/i-just-want-to-be-competitive-again-trans-cyclist-emily-bridges-on-preparing-to-race-in-the-female-category with these quotes:

"the sharp shock of taking part in the elite men’s crit at the Loughborough Cycling Festival at the end of May last year. “I was shelled after two laps and lapped four times,” she shakes her head, reliving the unfamiliar feeling of being resigned to defeat. Bridges finished 43rd out of 45."

"She may have gone from frontrunner to tail-ender in the course of just a few months,"

"Bridges has been participating in a study at Loughborough University to monitor these changes, as well as tracking her own data (see chart) – indicating a 13-16% drop in her power outputs across six-second, one-, five- and 20-minute durations. In light of these changes, is she content that the current rules are appropriate? “I think so, yes. The reduced testosterone has a direct effect on the main determinants of VO2max – red blood cells, haemoglobin, haematocrit – which drop to female levels within five months."

So power output has dropped by 13-16% - interestingly right in the 9-24% range of advantage of males over females in cycling events cited by Hilton and Lundberg pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/.

How does that square with qualifying 4th out of 20 for the men's individual pursuit, and 4th overall (just out of the medal positions)?

How does that square with winning bronze in the men's team pursuit?

How does that square with winning gold in the men's points race?

All at this event www.bucs.org.uk/events-page/cycling-track-championships-2021-22.html?tab=Results+and+Programme

334bu · 10/03/2022 12:42

So easy to minimise your effort if there is nothing to be won and everything to lose if you perform too well! Just look at Lia's performance against the Harvard transman swimmer, when no points were at stake, such a "surprising" dip in Lia's times!Hmm

YouSetTheTone · 10/03/2022 15:22

Someone also (it may have been Ross Tucker) made the point that the intent doesn't matter. (When people say 'why would someone go to the trouble of transitioning to win?')
The simple fact of their sexed body (male) gives them an unfair advantage in a female race.

If a competitor had unknowingly been slipped a drug in their drink before racing they would still be banned from the race - because of the obvious fact of the advantage the drug gave them. Whether they intended to ingest it or not is irrelevant.

ScrollingLeaves · 11/03/2022 19:15

I don’t want to detail the discussion but was wondering about something related: when a trans woman joins a woman’s team and would thereby give that team an advantage.

This was having just seen the Addidas advertisement about becoming the impossible, featuring various remarkable women but which which also includes the words, “Compete as a trans woman” and shows Tiffany Abreu, who is a trans woman volley ball player.
www.thedrum.com/news/2022/02/18/ad-the-day-adidas-film-encourages-turning-your-impossible-i-mpossible

Will female swimmers ever win Olympic Gold again? Thomas aims for top…
Feelingoktoday · 12/03/2022 00:21

How hard have women had to work to even get their sporty taken seriously! We couldn’t run a marathon until 1983 as it was felt our insides would fall out. Women’s football teams are only just getting decent sponsorship. And now men want to take it all away from us as we are obviously doing too well!

334bu · 12/03/2022 07:16

And now men want to take it all away from us as we are obviously doing too well!

Not really because we are doing too well, but rather that they can maybe profit too. Professional sportswomen can now make a living doing their sport, so it is perhaps unsurprising that we are now seeing male athletes who identify as women appearing in women's teams in football, cycling and volleyball etc.

BootsAndRoots · 12/03/2022 14:40

I wonder what gender many of these athletes will be a few years after they retire?

mummykel16 · 12/03/2022 21:19

@BootsAndRoots

I wonder what gender many of these athletes will be a few years after they retire?
Or on a night out now
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