Will female swimmers ever win Olympic Gold again? Thomas aims for top…

[LunaLights]

Thomas plans to swim in the Olympics.

Thomas, who has applied to law school, now has her sights set on representing Team USA at the 2024 Olympic Games in Paris. But first she’ll swim in the NCAA Women’s Division I Swimming and Diving Championships starting on March 16 in Atlanta, where she’s favoured to win the 200 and 500-yard freestyle events.

www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/im-not-a-man-transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas-pushes-back-against-critics/news-story/5a762ebbd6577790ffaccc953af76ec2

The reason we've not had TW winning women's medals is because none of them has had the brass neck to try. Until now.
Wonder if we'll ever get transmen winning in the male category..... now why wouldn't that ever happen?....

There is an article in the daily mail with Caitlyn Jenner quoted as saying lia thomas competing in womens events is “just not fair”

torontosun.com/news/world/caitlyn-jenner-lambastes-woke-culture-trans-swimmer-lia-thomas/wcm/13721eaf-4515-4b3a-a3cb-ce697ca257fa/amp/

The only transwoman who has won an Olympic gold medal as a man thinks it is totally unfair.

@DisgustedofManchester

Checks how many Olympic medals a trans woman has won so far... zero

Okay ... world records.... nope

National championships.... uh uh

You should listen to Ross Tucker and his Science of Sport podcasts where he demolishes this argument. The main strands are:

1. Equality of outcome does not mean that there was no competitive advantage. So just because no transwoman has won an Olympics does not mean that there is no advantage to having a male body.

1. Elite women’s sports are incredibly competitive so a man would have to be a very good athlete in the first instance to come close. Laurel Hubbard wasn’t a particularly good weightlifter and was too old. Lia Thomas however was a very good swimmer in the mens team when he competed as Will Thomas. This is the first instance of a good male athlete transitioning and the effects can be clearly seen.

Please do listen to Ross Tucker and educate yourself,

Elite women’s sports are incredibly competitive so a man would have to be a very good athlete in the first instance to come close.

Lia Thomas was ranked 462. not particularly competitive.
(Serena Williams was beaten by a male (Karsten Braasch) ranked outside of the top 200)

Laurel Hubbard wasn’t a particularly good weightlifter and was too old.
Yet they still managed to get to the Olympics where they bottled the lifts.

BridasShieldWall

Sorry if that seems critical its just to add more scope to what you have written.

FrippEnos - no problem, the more the better

Yet they still managed to get to the Olympics where they bottled the lifts.

More importantly a young woman was denied a place on the Olympic team to accommodate a male athlete.

As it's so easy for LT to beat women, by not exerting himself too much, it's entirely possible that he could compete in every category - it's not like he'd be too exhausted to do it.

If no one would mind - it's only women's sport. It won't impact on men real people. However, the fun will start in the mixed relays - would the USA dare to put 2 men, 1 woman and LT in the mixed relays, thus taking away medals from male competitors? How would the other male competitors react? I think that would be the game changer.

@Walkingtheplank

As it's so easy for LT to beat women, by not exerting himself too much, it's entirely possible that he could compete in every category - it's not like he'd be too exhausted to do it.

If no one would mind - it's only women's sport. It won't impact on men real people. However, the fun will start in the mixed relays - would the USA dare to put 2 men, 1 woman and LT in the mixed relays, thus taking away medals from male competitors? How would the other male competitors react? I think that would be the game changer.

That’s an excellent example!

Just in case anyone hasn't seen a mixed relay event, here is the Olympic event. The difference between the men and women is quite staggering.

Lia Thomas was ranked 462. not particularly competitive.

You're right, Thomas is only "half decent" rather than "very good".

There's a sort of point there in that a "very good" athlete - someone really at top level in the sport - is unlikely to want to endanger that with transition. Why complicate things? So I think we won't ever see someone like Phelps or Federer transitioning, or even a top-level national athlete.

And it's true that it's not as simple as someone transitioning "simply to win at sports".

But there is clearly a pattern emerging of a "second career". When a man finds they are not quite where they want to be, or their performance is fading with age, then they have a potential path open to them. If they were in any way minded to transition, then it's a case of "what do I have to lose?"

If they do transition they not only get whatever they're looking for from the transition itself, they can have a second sports career into their 40s against 20-something women, or just boost their initial career to where they wish it had been. Win-win.

In Thomas's case he simply wasn't at the top of his sport - I believe he was at the performance level of "able to compete, but not making it into his college's long-distance relay team". Maybe it was a hard, unrewarding grind. But now he can win any event he likes, easily. It's fun again.

And this whole option is only open to men of course. Women don't get a second sports career. It's hard enough to do the first one, even without the men in the event.

There's a sort of point there in that a "very good" athlete - someone really at top level in the sport - is unlikely to want to endanger that with transition. Why complicate things? So I think we won't ever see someone like Phelps or Federer transitioning, or even a top-level national athlete.

No, they'll wait until they've cemented their achievements, like Jenner, before risking anything. It's only those that won't achieve the highest success by fair means, who will try to achieve it by cheating.

It’s not even about transitioning. Lia Thomas has all their tackle. And some activists campaign for the right to compete if you feel like a woman. So in theory a man could “feel” female for a race and then be back to full-on blokedom by the time he’s changed out of his swimsuit (in the women’s changing room….).

Even beginner male athletes can have a profitable "female" career. Virginia Van Gogh started cycling after transition and became a professional cyclist at the age of 37! Retired aged 47. Wonder how many menopausal women are competing on the European Professional Cycling circuit?

Sorry Natalie Van Gogh not Virginia.

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/asterisk-needed-symbol-would-define-lia-thomas-unfair-advantage-at-ncaa-championships/

@334bu

Even beginner male athletes can have a profitable "female" career. Virginia Van Gogh started cycling after transition and became a professional cyclist at the age of 37! Retired aged 47. Wonder how many menopausal women are competing on the European Professional Cycling circuit?

All the women who give up lucrative careers, invest years of training, drop out education early, move away from friends and family - all on the proviso that they’re good enough to compete with women...And they’re screwed

@334bu

torontosun.com/news/world/caitlyn-jenner-lambastes-woke-culture-trans-swimmer-lia-thomas/wcm/13721eaf-4515-4b3a-a3cb-ce697ca257fa/amp/

The only transwoman who has won an Olympic gold medal as a man thinks it is totally unfair.

Some interesting quotes from that article:

The former member of the Kardashian clan added that she has an advantage over other women golfers because she has longer arms, is 6’1″ and can outdrive them by 100 yards.

“Even being off testosterone and on oestrogen for seven years now, what I’ve got left over is still more than they’ve ever had. So, it wouldn’t be fair.”

Does DoM disagree with Jenner's experience as an all-round athlete and as a transwoman?

@DisgustedofManchester

Checks how many Olympic medals a trans woman has won so far... zero

Okay ... world records.... nope

National championships.... uh uh

You see, those are the words of someone who doesn't understand how selection, trials etc work. There wil be a small time delay whilst al those mediocre men get their T levels down and their registration for women's sports sorted.

And Thomas is working on it... from the bottom levels up, sights set on Olympic gold.

Collegiate records - check
Nationals - next round of competition!

Have you not thought about the women that a single male competitor ousts from a sport? It isn't just 1 for 1. But then, you've been on the same threads as I have. You've seen those facts! You have always seen and dismissed those facts!

@JellySaurus

There's a sort of point there in that a "very good" athlete - someone really at top level in the sport - is unlikely to want to endanger that with transition. Why complicate things? So I think we won't ever see someone like Phelps or Federer transitioning, or even a top-level national athlete.

No, they'll wait until they've cemented their achievements, like Jenner, before risking anything. It's only those that won't achieve the highest success by fair means, who will try to achieve it by cheating.

Or unless like Emily Bridges a series of accidents puts paid to their pole position as a distinct possibility for a medal in Paris so they fast forward the transition they had previously been happy to delay until after Paris to grab the possibility of a medal as a transwoman.

Always a good idea to have a back up plan.

Pity every single spectator in that stadium doesn't turn their backs and stand there in silence when a blatant cheat gets up on the podium. I would. Boils my blood.

#NoThankYou

@DisgustedofManchester

Checks how many Olympic medals a trans woman has won so far... zero

Okay ... world records.... nope

National championships.... uh uh

Are you suggesting that when the answer is more than zero, that's the moment we should get males out of women's sports?

It will be interesting to see what happens at and after the NCAA swim meet in a few weeks.

How many trans women will it take to also compete along side Thomas et al for them to realise this plan may have backfired.