Exulansic has reduced following?

[Linearpark]

Are people still following her now she's migrated to Odyssey? Her numbers are way down but you'd think everyone knew where to find her by now. Is there something about the Odyssey platform that is off-putting that I should know about. eg has it got unsavoury content or is it sound and just small and alternative? Or do people subscribe to channels that they aren't really interested in? Just wondered.

I was going to list Karen Davis's many lies but I see @gcrhino has done it already. KD has deleted all my comments when I tried to expose her lies.

gcrhino I totally ageee. I'm really angry and I'm only an observer in this.

The whole point of Genspect (correct me if I'm wrong) was to give parents of GD/trans children a space to support each other and also have a ready place for the media to come to when they (as they always do) ask for personal stories to give a perspective that gender ideology is not all 'pure joy'

KD also seems to cite as 'evidence of being pedophile apologists/adjacent' the fact the Stella and Sasha has interviewed Blanchard and Bailey on their podcast. They have. I've listened to all these interviews and enjoyed them. Found them interesting and I learnt things. Stella and Sasha also have had a 'mid season' discussion amoungst themselves discussing things they agree/disagree/have discovered since speaking to all their interviewees.

Imo, the biggest lie Karen Davis has said about Genspect is that they are in favour of medicalising children. Their entire raison d'etre is to stop the medicalisation of children through supporting parents who seek better treatment for their kids. This lie is really destructive. I can't really figure out tbh why KD would repeat this lie when she knows it's wrong - she's been told hundreds of times in the deleted comments. Is it just for likes and clicks?
I can see Exulansic's motivation - she can't seem to handle being wrong and it has driven her crazy. But I cant' understand KD. Any insight would be very welcome?

Don't go on Gettr unless you want to loose your morning.

She's now going on about how she knows about the associated disabilities with some dsds (MRKH being one) and using this to bolster her arguments missing the point that these are children and people with disabilities. Ffs. Being used as pawns.

She's acting exactly like a TRA.

Ironic really, because a decade or so ago she may well have been one.

I also like to know anymore theories behind what is actually behind KD.
There's so many evils in the world to go after and she chooses Genspect, in the main. It's insane.

Also Claire Graham is a tough character who can be abrasive herself. Putting everything else aside she knows her DSD stuff and is not the kind of person to lie down and take a beating. She's going shit back. This seems to have enraged both KD and Ex more.

KD's YouTube views are pretty low. Around the 1k mark. The slightly higher views seem to be for vids where she's attacking other GCs and Allies. Is KD just in this for fame? Notoriety? I get the feeling Ex is in this for that. Ex also seems to want to hold herself up as some massive brain who has insights no-one else can achieve. That's cult leader territory (sorry I know the cult description is thrown about so much but most cult leaders do hold themselves up as incredibly intelligent and in possession of information others haven't) That's why she can't stand being shown up to be any kind of wrong about anything.

The whole shitshow is complex and both a little bit fascinating and horrifying at the same time.

Of all the crap going on in the US and they spend their time on Gettr and YT doing this???

*throwing shit back.

I thought it was already established that Ex was a TRA? I thought she admitted it?

I work with speech therapists. Ive been trained in certain therapies and worked under sp and lang leads with individual children as well as whole groups of children with similar diagnoses.

She's not thinking like the speech therapists I know nor is thinking in a way I recognise when working on the "chalk face" with any child, let alone one who has a language difficulty.

She's not applying what we would know about a child with or without these disabilities from their perception of the concrete world and how they make sense of that. Abstract ideas (which to a child genetics etc would be) are very hard to grasp.

She's chasing minor details and exaggerating them without context and doing a lot of damage in the process.

Exactly as I see TRAs do with people with dsds as well as teachers who don't understand what the hell they're talking about (gender bread shite.)

Yes I thought she'd said she used to be a TRA, but obviously changed her stance.

Yes I agree @PatsArrow I think accusing other GC people gets much more clicks and comments for KD and Ex and that's why they do it. This doesn't reflect well on the GC movement though

Solidarityovercharity god no. It's terrible optics for GCs.

I want nothing to do with them.

These abstract ideas about sex and gendered personality and concrete bodies are exactly why trans ideology is so bad for children with comprehension difficulties (and younger neurotypical children struggle with the abstract) and leaves them more vulnerable open to abuse within the "queer world."

@PatsArrow do you not consider yourself GC? I do - well, my beliefs are GC. But I'm soooo disappointed with the people in the movement

No I don't call myself GC.

It becomes a political movement. And then we have this situation.

I'll call myself feminist and discuss gender ideology and feminism within that context. The rest is science, medicine and safeguarding.

@Cleopatracat

The detail of the argument is one thing, the behaviour of Karen Davis and Exulansic is quite another. They are behaving like bullies, turned on by power and self righteousness rage. There is absolutely no reason why anyone who wants real discussion about these issues would turn to either of these two bullies seeking fair- minded, informed analysis. Karen Davis has lied repeatedly about Genspect and every time she is corrected by a parent she deletes the comments. Why does she do that? Exulansic clearly can't handle disagreement either. BTW, probably a stupid question, is *@langcleg*inspace the same as *@langcleg*?

I think that's a fair perspective.

I don't know anything about KD but I don't think this is a surprise from Ex. All of her videos have this quality of a very extreme focus and fitting things she sees within the confines of what her views will allow.

My guess is that before she rejected gender ideology she would have been the same way in arguing for it. Rigid thinkers like that can get very angry because they don't see how others could come to different conclusions unless they are being self-serving or are being deceived in some way.

Solidaritynotcharity I used to consider myself GC. Like you, I have the beliefs lots of GC people have. However (also like you) I'm horrified by some of the things I hear 'GC' people say.

I think I'm becoming more moderate. I believe in keeping and increasing all Womens rights and safe spaces, protecting our children from harmful ideas and unnecessary medicines and surgeries that can ruin their lives. I'd like to repeal the GDS. However I sometimes get uncomfortable at the hounding of any grown trans person who says they are AGP for no real reason other than them 'being that'. Also the harrassment of any adult woman who has transitioned and says they are happy. Maybe they are? Maybe they won't be in time? I don't feel it's my place to berate them.

I also have many male friends who are GC and have been involved in activism. However I've known a male friend turn up to Kellie-Jays Speakers corner event, not even attempt to speak just with his female friends, and been told he's not welcome (not by KJ herself). Solid Male allies repeatedly told they are not welcome in this movement. I don't mean just well known ones. I know plenty of normal men who have been very put off publicly supporting the GC cause for fear of a Twitter pile-on.

I know Women and girls are disproportionately affected by all this....but I mainly see this this as a fight for reality, truth and facts. I believe men are allowed to be concerned about that too.

I know not all people do this. I've just seen enough people do it to make me feel uneasy.

So I'm not sure what I am. I'd say GC if asked I guess. But I'm not wedded to it.

GDS? .....damn auto correct. I mean GRA of course.

@gcrhino

As a parent who has followed this very closely and made many comments on KD's YouTube, I can answer this. The specific lies KD has said about Genspect:

1. She's said Genspect is in favour of bottom surgery for children. Nope.
2. She's said Genspect is in favour of puberty blockers. Wrong.
3. She's said Genspect is funded by Jennifer Pritzker/ Arcus foundation. Another lie.
4. She's said that Genspect is professionally associated with a number of people such as James Cantor, Michael Bailey and Ray Blanchard. All untrue. None of these people have ever been team members or advisors in any capacity.
5. She said that Claire Graham is a paid employee of Genspect. She isn't and have never been, she's a team member who volunteered input re DSDs.
6. She has said that nobody has told her about the work Genspect done- they have and she has deleted the comments.
7. She has said that nobody has told her about the work that Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayad has done , they have and she has deleted the comments.
8. She has knowingly lied about Genspect by telling people that when they repeat James Cantor's 80% desistance stat that this is a form of platforming James Cantor. Yet she repeats that statistic herself and she has deleted the comments pointing out the hypocrisy.
9. She has implied that parents who support Genspect should be regarded with suspicion of child abuse - this is a lie in kind.

And I'm angry. Genspect is actually shifting this conversation and has helped me. My friend was able to tell her story on TV only because of Genspect. These people don't care about dysphoric kids AT ALL.

I'd have to look your allegations up I don't think I could, or want to spend my life trawling through that many vids, though ). I don't know if what you allege was actually said like that by KD. Direct quotes from the source would be good, especially when one is alleging someone is lying.

Associations with anyone who is connected with/active supporter of paedophile groups/paedophilia would be unacceptable, of course; if that were true. Even if not revealed as an official advisor, or stated as being on the 'Team'. Sometimes there is 'the truth' (depending on what precise question was asked), and then there is 'the full truth'. There is no amount of squinting or equivocation which could deodorise that and most people would be very happy if there were no such associations. However oblique.

I seem to remember that KD may have corrected her comments on Claire Graham being a member of the 'Team', rather than a paid employee of the Team? It doesn't sound like a substantive issue, to be honest. The term Team is quite vague. I think they don't appear to be a registered charity (I could be wrong) , nor transparent. They (and any decent org) should be eager to show themselves as open, accountable, transparent and registered/audited. I don't think openness is some randoms typing, and spreading, what they are allege Genspect does or doesn't do. The organisation itself must be open, transparent and accountable.

I must admit, in general, I would be suspicious of any organisation which gets shirty when asked perfectly reasonable questions about funding, associations and mission. You'd imagine they would be keen to show themselves as upright. But then having lived in Ireland when all the historical sex abuse cases (by oh so respectable orgs and people) were made public, I would not be naive about the possibility that any such organisation is not exactly as they would like to portray.

Backtracking a bit, several posts above mention "transitioning" wrt CAIS, ie. bodily modifications and/or behaviour aiming to mimic the opposite sex.

The trajectory and intended destination is: "man".

A person with CAIS cannot "transition" in the direction of "woman" because the starting point is "woman".

A person with CAIS cannot even manage as convincing a "female to male transition" as an XX woman, bodily or behaviourally, as testosterone has no effect.

Sierra Weir ("Exulansic") seems to think it is a huge "Gotcha!" that she has discovered a single example in the scientific literature of a person with CAIS undergoing "transition" by phalloplasty, ie. "identifying" as a man / male.

Which makes that person no different from the hundreds of thousands of XX women doing the exact same thing.

What would be a "Gotcha!" (if it were possible but it is not) is the discovery of a person with CAIS undergoing "gender affirmation surgery" in the other direction, ie. from "man" aiming for "woman".

However, that is just as impossible as an XX woman "transitioning" to become . . . a woman.

SW started on the CAIS bandwagon before Dalea Rundblad made an appearance on Benjamin Boyce's YouTube Channel.

She claims it was in response to persistent requests that she cover CAIS. If so, she had a choice.

She chose to dive head first into an area about which she was even less well informed, and even less well qualified to comment on, than "gender surgery".

She chose to pitch the frankly ludicrous notion that CAIS is THE wedge issue that opens the doors of women's spaces to all comers.

If she had been pestered to cover CAIS, was it vanity, cowardice or punting for clicks that persuaded her ignore the obvious take on CAIS in relation to trans, ie. "red herring - nothing to see here"?

She and Karen "You're Kidding Right" Davis seem to be operating as a tag-team, with both bent on the destruction of a tiny UK Charity (DSD Families - focussing on parents of children with VSDs) and Genspect (a new organisation that also works with parents) - aided and abetted by a mob of supposedly "GC feminists".

You could not make this stuff up!!

Who benefits from a campaign by US activists to destroy the reputation of tiny UK Charity DSD Families?

Well, Mermaids must be licking their lips for a start.

How about Genspect?

Any and all organisations promoting the medicalisation of children and portraying psychotherapy and "watchful waiting" as "conversion therapy".

Even if SW and KD are well-intentioned, they are supremely misguided in undermining the few sources of support for parents that are not full-on "gender affirming", Queer Theory ideologues.

gcrhino has already detailed the lies that KD has been spreading about Genspect.

A quick peek at Gettr and I cannot believe how much worse this has got in the last few days!!

KD, SW, Vanessa Vokey and their fans are accusing Genspect, DSD Families, a number of well-known GC individuals, and virtually anyone who has a passing connection with them, or who has not come out against them, of being in a "paedophile network"!!!

Even Erin Brewer has got in on the act and is throwing "pedo" accusations around with gay abandon! 😱

Please, not Erin too! 😥

The whole lot of them need a holiday from Social Media, including video platforms, to re-calibrate and re-focus.

They are going absolutely bonkers out there! If we thought the "GC Witch Hunts" by TRAs were bad, they have got nothing on this. Give it a few days and the whole of Mumsnet will be blasted as a massive pedo-network if we don't all agree with SW, KD and VV! 🙄

The saving grace is that Gettr is such a backwater that they are all pretty much screaming into the void and perhaps are best left to it until they regain their sanity.

TO THE CRITICS and Karen Davis – On their Genspect and Stella O'Malley assault. As a parent of a child with gender issues, i am horrified by this, Genspect has been my rock, the one true source of support, information and hope, in a sea of trans affirming doctors and therapist. I have posted numerous defences and comment on Davis videos and she deletes them all. Would they not spend a bit more time attacking the trans activists rather than those on the gender critical side? Genspect has done an awful lot for this side of the debate and they are trashing them. Its not just criticism its a total assault of lies and disinformation, and I’m appalled to see people on MUMSNET actually taking some of these accusations at face value without having looked into what Genspect really has to say on the subjects. Its difficult to imagine why Davis is honing in on Genspect, there is certainly no logical reason if you wish to defend real sex and gender, but for god sake MUMNETTERS dont YOU participate by failing to support Genspect and Stella O'Malley. SPEAK UP PEOPLE ........“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me”. Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) German theologian and Lutheran pastor.[2][3] He is best known for his opposition to the Nazi regime Niemöller was imprisoned in Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps from 1938 to 1945.

I also have many male friends who are GC and have been involved in activism. However I've known a male friend turn up to Kellie-Jays Speakers corner event, not even attempt to speak just with his female friends, and been told he's not welcome (not by KJ herself). Solid Male allies repeatedly told they are not welcome in this movement. I don't mean just well known ones. I know plenty of normal men who have been very put off publicly supporting the GC cause for fear of a Twitter pile-on

I see very few men turning out at any of the events I've been too, and those that do are made welcome. I suspect that if a single incident of a random woman telling a random man at an event that he's not welcome is enough to deter your from the GC path, PatsArrow, you weren't on the GC path to start with. And I'd remind you that we're not here to be nice to men.

is not the kind of person to lie down and take a beating.

I don't think anyone should be required to 'take a beating'. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And, entitled to voice their opinion. It can be refuted if wrong.

I can't remember exactly (and will try to come back with the exact quote), but didn't CG deflect some discussion or other to make some personal remark about KD being so obsessed with paedophilia when KD was talking about safeguarding. Seems to me that all involved are well able, and inclined, to play down and dirty. No angels and no devils.

and I remind you that we're not here to be nice to men

You see, this is exactly the barbed comment I'm talking about. I never once said that women were here to 'be nice' to men. I said the fight disproportionately effects women and girls. Just in my own personal experience I have many male friends and aquaintences that are put off by hostile comments and fear of being piled-on.
I don't consider that terribly healthy. I think we need everyone to fight this.

Just by opinion. I'm out.

who does this benefit

I had a longer post but quite frankly, a few people's egos as far as I can tell.

And all tras.