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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Surrogacy in Ukraine - Times article

165 replies

Soontobe60 · 20/02/2022 09:20

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/surrogate-mothers-fear-pressure-to-flee-ukraine-gsntx9z7f?shareToken=39849d90d0863ecb43166b4738993526
So it would seem that in Ukraine, they admit that surrogacy is big business that will suffer economically if Russia invades. And the poor foreign clients will want the surrogates to move out of the country if it happens - despite them having their own families! Talk about exploitation!!

OP posts:
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nepeta · 17/03/2022 13:05

The invasion of Ukraine is so dreadful to contemplate and so horrible for all those suffering from its effects that it is hard even to contemplate the other stuff discussed here.

Yet it is important to remember, even in this context, how the current trend in some circles makes it acceptable to commercialise the female body (sex work, porn, surrogacy) while at the same time erasing the names for those who have that body. The logical outcome, then, is that the surrogates' despair becomes less visible in these horrible times.
I

OhHolyJesus · 20/03/2022 10:57

Another relevant article, please count the mentions of the surrogate mothers.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10631009/Ukraines-surrogate-babies-cared-makeshift-underground-nursery-Kyiv.html

FannyCann · 20/03/2022 11:04

I'm very heartened by the comments. I feel there is real understanding of the issue among many of the comments, maybe it's because of the bomb shelter situation but most DM surrogacy stories have comments full of the what a lovely gift of life variety whereas today they are asking questions like "lots of those babies are older, nothing to do with the war, why are they there?"

Slothtoes · 22/03/2022 06:40

Ukraine: Impossible choices for surrogate mothers and parents www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60824936

This article shows some of the absolutely horrific situations that women and babies are in.

OhHolyJesus · 23/03/2022 22:42

This too Sloth, this points out that we've been here before with Covid, it's also, perhaps more accurately, calling it baby farming. What does that make the women, breeding stock?

www.newstribune.com/news/2022/mar/22/debra-saunders-ukraines-baby-farms/

(What proportion of the Ukrainian surrogate mothers are in their 60s do you think, and what level of poverty would induce them to undergo a pregnancy at that age? And also were the commissioning parents told she was 25?)

Slothtoes · 24/03/2022 08:29

Thanks for the link. If we weren’t in such deeply shocking times there would surely be more outrage about this. The BBC article describes refugee surrogates in safe countries now being expected to go back into Ukraine, an actual war zone, in order to give birth. This is because Ukraine have surrogacy laws that mean the parents can legally take the baby away straight away. Because the commissioning parents wouldn’t want to wait to have to adopt the baby, if it was born safely in a safe country under a safe country’s laws, that doesn’t recognise surrogacy. I can’t get my head around the inhumanity of it.
The Russians have recently specifically bombed maternity and children’s hospitals in Ukraine.

What on earth is written into those contracts that people are even suggesting this? Where are the woman’s rights to safety, privacy, dignity? This isn’t even a case of ‘womb work is work’. Nobody works a ‘job’ under those in humane and crazily dangerous conditions unless they are completely desperate or been abused into it. It’s a complete violation for the parents to expect this.

And the clinics are saying they now have hundreds of babies awaiting collecting and more being born every day. Nobody mentions what will happen to those babies long term, or the needs and safety of the women they gave birth to, and nobody knows whether the babies will ever be able to be collected. It’s just awful.

FannyCann · 27/03/2022 23:36

It's just terrible, the whole situation is appalling @Slothtoes

Copying the latest email from Ukraine Surrogacy Dispatches which gives more detail about surrogate mothers returning to Ukraine to deliver:

In the opening days of the war, many surrogates were moved west to safer cities and villages, or out of the country altogether. But a big question remains: where should the child be born?
There is a lot to consider. From a medical perspective, small villages and towns may not have the level of maternity care that is needed. From a physical safety perspective, larger centres, like Lviv, remain at risk of bombardment. But giving birth outside the country poses its own problems.
One of the reasons Ukraine is a popular choice for surrogacy is its laws, which make it straightforward for intended parents to be legal parents of the children born to surrogates. But that is not the case in neighbouring countries. The surrogacy contract drawn up in Ukraine would not be valid in these countries. Any child born to a surrogate could be considered the surrogate’s legal child.
Below, a snapshot of the new challenges created if the child is born outside Ukraine (in, say, Poland) followed by a brief exploration of how agencies and clinics are increasingly looking to avoid those challenges — by nipping back inside Ukraine for the birth.
*
Birth outside Ukraine*
Some two million Ukrainians have fled their country for Poland, and among them are surrogates carrying children for foreigners.
Surrogacy is not legal in Poland — neither commercial nor altruistic. A Ukrainian surrogacy contract would be invalid if the birth takes place in Poland. Polish doctors will treat the pregnant woman as the mother and the newborn as her child; they do not even want to know the identity of the intended parents. Intended parents currently waiting in Poland are sometimes advised by their agencies not to talk about surrogacy at all.
If a child is born in Poland through surrogacy, the child's birth certificate will list the surrogate as the child's mother. It does not matter if the intended mother is the genetic mother of the child.
The intended father, however, can be listed as the child's father. Some intended fathers are being advised to go, in advance of the birth, to the registry office, where they can fill out a special declaration form, so that their name will appear on the birth certificate when it is issued.
That will also mean that the father's surname will be the child's surname on the birth certificate.
However, if the intended father does not speak Polish, he will need an official translator to help fill out the form. The father will have to hire that translator.
Beyond the birth certificate, the child will need a passport to get out of the country. Countries like the UK, the US, Australia and Canada grant citizenship to children born abroad to citizen-parents (with some conditions). Some of those countries, however, require a proven genetic connection to the child.
Australia is one. The country requires a mandatory DNA test to establish that genetic connection before a passport can be issued. As of about a week ago, the test performed in Poland still needed to be sent to Australia for processing. Results then had to be sent back to Poland. Only after the results confirmed genetic parentage could the passport be issued.
Some home countries have been assisting intended parents in the surrogacy process via Poland. But others, especially where surrogacy is not recognized or legal — and a lot of intended parents doing surrogacy in Ukraine come from these countries — have not.
There are questions about the cost of giving birth in Poland. Many intended parents have already paid for the birth in their fee to their Ukrainian agency. If their child is born in Poland, however, the fee will likely not apply.
My understanding is that Ukrainian women crossing into Poland will get free medical care, including maternity care. Still, some intended parents are being given private-pay options at hospitals in places like Warsaw, Katowice, and Bialystok.
(For instance, a vaginal birth could cost a parent around $2,000 USD, a C-section birth around $2,800 USD, and for $4,500 USD, a parent can purchase a "prestige package," which includes choice of doctor, two-room adjoining suites so the parents can be next to the surrogate, and an extended stay, among other things.)
The kinds of problems that arise from a surrogate giving birth in Poland are similar for those who might give birth in neighbouring Moldova, Hungary, Slovakia and Romania.
Which is why agencies and clinics are increasingly considering a previously unthinkable alternative:

Birth outside Ukraine
Some two million Ukrainians have fled their country for Poland, and among them are surrogates carrying children for foreigners.
Surrogacy is not legal in Poland — neither commercial nor altruistic. A Ukrainian surrogacy contract would be invalid if the birth takes place in Poland. Polish doctors will treat the pregnant woman as the mother and the newborn as her child; they do not even want to know the identity of the intended parents. Intended parents currently waiting in Poland are sometimes advised by their agencies not to talk about surrogacy at all.
If a child is born in Poland through surrogacy, the child's birth certificate will list the surrogate as the child's mother. It does not matter if the intended mother is the genetic mother of the child.
The intended father, however, can be listed as the child's father. Some intended fathers are being advised to go, in advance of the birth, to the registry office, where they can fill out a special declaration form, so that their name will appear on the birth certificate when it is issued.
That will also mean that the father's surname will be the child's surname on the birth certificate.
However, if the intended father does not speak Polish, he will need an official translator to help fill out the form. The father will have to hire that translator.
Beyond the birth certificate, the child will need a passport to get out of the country. Countries like the UK, the US, Australia and Canada grant citizenship to children born abroad to citizen-parents (with some conditions). Some of those countries, however, require a proven genetic connection to the child.
Australia is one. The country requires a mandatory DNA test to establish that genetic connection before a passport can be issued. As of about a week ago, the test performed in Poland still needed to be sent to Australia for processing. Results then had to be sent back to Poland. Only after the results confirmed genetic parentage could the passport be issued.
Some home countries have been assisting intended parents in the surrogacy process via Poland. But others, especially where surrogacy is not recognized or legal — and a lot of intended parents doing surrogacy in Ukraine come from these countries — have not.
There are questions about the cost of giving birth in Poland. Many intended parents have already paid for the birth in their fee to their Ukrainian agency. If their child is born in Poland, however, the fee will likely not apply.
My understanding is that Ukrainian women crossing into Poland will get free medical care, including maternity care. Still, some intended parents are being given private-pay options at hospitals in places like Warsaw, Katowice, and Bialystok.

Some surrogates from Odesa, in the south, are being evacuated 60 or so kilometres northwest into Moldova. The plan for some is to travel back into Ukraine for the birth — not back to Odesa, which is near active fighting, but another 60 or so kilometres out a northern border to the Ukrainian city of Chernivtsi.
Other surrogates have taken shelter in Slovakia. One plan for them is to stay in Slovakia until they are ready to give birth, then cross to the Ukrainian city of Uzhorod, just five kilometres from the Slovak border, when it's time. Parents are also being advised that they can try to be present for the birth.
For surrogates who have moved into Poland for safety, some have plans to return to Lviv in Ukraine about two weeks in advance of the birth, or when recommended by doctors, so they can give birth in Ukraine.
To recap... going back into Ukraine to give birth is considered a good option because:
• the original contracts among the parties remain valid
• the intended parents become the legal parents on all documents
• the surrogate does not become a parent
• documentation needed for travel documents can be acquired more straightforwardly
• the cost of birth is covered by the original agreement
• the surrogate can be more confident that she will be paid
The downside is that there’s a war.

(For instance, a vaginal birth could cost a parent around $2,000 USD, a C-section birth around $2,800 USD, and for $4,500 USD, a parent can purchase a "prestige package," which includes choice of doctor, two-room adjoining suites so the parents can be next to the surrogate, and an extended stay, among other things.)
The kinds of problems that arise from a surrogate giving birth in Poland are similar for those who might give birth in neighbouring Moldova, Hungary, Slovakia and Romania.
Which is why agencies and clinics are increasingly considering a previously unthinkable alternative:

FannyCann · 28/03/2022 08:49

Radio 4 Today had a short item about 08:04 reporting that the rate of premature births in Ukraine has doubled due to the stress the poor women are suffering.
As if the situation in Ukraine isn't bad enough with maternity hospitals being bombed the last thing they need is overflowing NICUs - where are they to find the staff and supplies?

As for surrogate mothers being expected to go do whatever they are told and travel to hospitals back in Ukraine to deliver - it's madness. The stress those poor women must be under. And the assumption that they can just nip never the border in time to have the baby when the chances are they will go into labour early and scupper all those plans - it's ridiculous.

OhHolyJesus · 28/03/2022 13:33

God that is shocking - double the usually number?

The effects of raised cortisol can cause miscarriage and developmental issues.

It's increasingly desperate in Ukraine.

Nobody mentions what will happen to those babies long term, or the needs and safety of the women they gave birth to, and nobody knows whether the babies will ever be able to be collected.

The babies who make it but are not collected by the commissioning parents could be trafficked and end up in neighbouring countries, sold on the black market. If someone arrived at these underground nurseries to take a child (or several) under the pretence of collecting them and sheltering them, how would the women there caring for them be able to check it was a genuine 'rescue'?

FannyCann · 31/03/2022 13:23

People are so tone deaf!
If I was evacuating a baby I had bought from Ukraine, leaving the surrogate mother to take her chances, I'd be wracked with guilt and would definitely be keeping a low profile.
Probably lie about where I got the baby "yeah, we remortgaged the house so we could go to USA. It's really expensive there but you know the SM is well paid and well treated...."

Though that's a bit tricky if they e already boasted "yeah we're going to Ukraine. It's SO much cheaper there...."

There's probably a reason why I would never find myself in that situation 🤔

AntonDD · 30/01/2023 21:02

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ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 21:08

How do you sleep at night?

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 21:10

'we recommend calming down and safely wait for the end of hostilities, knowing that your embryos and biomaterials in a safe place.'

Is this some sick joke?

Aswinikumar · 30/04/2026 14:30

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