Surrogacy in Ukraine - Times article

[Soontobe60]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/surrogate-mothers-fear-pressure-to-flee-ukraine-gsntx9z7f?shareToken=39849d90d0863ecb43166b4738993526
So it would seem that in Ukraine, they admit that surrogacy is big business that will suffer economically if Russia invades. And the poor foreign clients will want the surrogates to move out of the country if it happens - despite them having their own families! Talk about exploitation!!

@OchonAgusOchonOh the similarities to the forced adoptions & mother & baby homes seems to be lost my Irish generation, 40s/50s.

I heard somebody say ahh that’s because we’re rich people now. Different rules (not without irony).

My mother & her friends however were appalled when they heard of surrogacy.

[quote VaddaABeetch]@OchonAgusOchonOh the similarities to the forced adoptions & mother & baby homes seems to be lost my Irish generation, 40s/50s.

I heard somebody say ahh that’s because we’re rich people now. Different rules (not without irony).

My mother & her friends however were appalled when they heard of surrogacy.[/quote]
The magdalene laundries aren't gone that long. The last one closed in 1996. I assume there weren't too many new victims for at least a decade or two before that.

My Grandparents lived close to one and the women and girls who escaped often ended up hiding in one of their sheds. They would feed and hide them until the hunt died down and then helped them get out of town on a bus or get a lift from a sympathetic truck driver.

@OhHolyJesus

Bloody hell, how do that couple sleep at night? Your child's mother is still in danger... Hello?! No mention of her of course, they're the stars of the show.

So selfish - I have money. I don't need to adhere to biology like everyone else, I can just hire someone else to birth a baby for me

I'm appalled, but sadly not surprised, about how the commissioning parents clearly think about the surrogate mothers. An incubator which has to be kept physically safe until they can get hold of her precious cargo. Who cares about her mental health, her family or other responsibilities, what happens to her after the birth?

A while ago a listened to a documentary about a journalist travelling with a Danish couple, who had ordered a baby in Kiev before the pandemic. Surrogacy is illegal under Denmark's people trafficking laws, so they had planned to travel to Ukraine in time for the birth, then when they got back home the father would register the birth and claim his wife had given birth to the baby. But Covid hit and the world went into lockdown, so they weren't able to get to Ukraine until a few weeks after the birth.
That was bad enough to hear about, but at least "only" problems (in addition to normal surrogacy horrors) were the emotional damage to the infant of being left in a cot unable to bond to a parent for the first days of its life; and arguments about money since the contract had changed.
I can't imagine giving birth in the middle of an invasion.
I mean obviously there will always be pregnant in any city which gets attacked, and it is always awful for them, but this just feels so unnecessary. And the contrast of the commissioning parents' desperation to get "their" baby, with their complete disregard for the living, breathing, HUMAN woman who is bringing it into the world, is gross.

@OchonAgusOchonOh I’m 52, I remember all that.

Is their some collective national attempt to forget the forced adoptions the policing of women bodies, to forget the church abuse of kids.

We’ve bought into the church of gender & wokeness where men In dresses get to lecture the population with a final say on well everything & we snatch babies from their mothers to give them to more ‘worthy’ parents Have we learned nothing?

I’m so tired & angry with this shite sorry if I’m incomprehensible.

@Bergamotte is there any chance you can find a link to this documentary or remember the name? I'd be interested in watching that.

Another issue is whether and when the commissioning parents will collect the baby. Let's be honest, this invasion is unlikely to end overnight, Ukrainian citizens could have months of this horror. Babies who are not collected at newborn stage will quickly grow and there were comments during the pandemic travel restrictions where I think it was a commissioning mother said something about the newborn phase being ruined for her.

@VaddaABeetch - I’m 52, I remember all that.

Same here. I'm 57 and the magdalene laundry just beside my grandparents' house was a part of my childhood. We used to get chased off by the nuns if we went into their grounds. They were scary women.

Georgie Crawford (no I hadn't either) has had to cancel her order for another surrogate born baby, a sibling for the last baby she bought from Ukraine:

Unfortunately, things did not play out as they’d hoped and the Crawfords have had to make the unimaginably difficult decision not to proceed with that surrogacy. Due to undergo the process of embryo transfer this week, the couple were forced to put things on pause in light of the current situation in Ukraine. Their match didn’t want to wait, however, and has chosen to continue the process with another family.
“Over the past two weeks, we have watched the news nonstop and have been on an emotional rollercoaster, to say the least,” Georgie shared during the week. “Our embryo transfer was due to take place yesterday [Monday] but we felt like it was best for our family to ask our clinic if we could pause the process until things (hopefully) settle.
“Our clinic were so supportive but unfortunately our surrogate mother felt like she had to keep going in the process and was to be put forward to another family who felt ready to proceed.
“When I say unfortunate, I mean unfortunate for us. I have no doubt in my mind that our surrogate made the best decision for her family. I thought about her all day long yesterday and have nothing but love in my heart for her.”

With all that move maybe she could help her and her family escape perhaps?

A contract should have been signed so maybe they are able to pull out prior to implantation with no legal repercussions or loss of money, leaving the woman with the need to earn money as well as the physical preparation of implantation. She then had to be quickly 're-matched' further down the conveyor belt to another commissioning couple (there is no shortage of people willing to exploit her). Georgie and her husband cancelled the appointment on Monday this week.

Russia invaded the next day.

Sorry, forgot the link. Yet another article that barely mentions the women who actually give birth and nothing by sympathy for the people paying them to do so.

(I realise Georgie Crawford had breast cancer. So do lots of women. She had one child and wanted another but couldn't. So do lots of families.)

www.image.ie/self/georgie-crawford-makes-heartbreaking-decision-not-to-proceed-with-ukraine-surrogacy-at-this-time-395284

Sorry, @OhHolyJesus it was a radio documentary so possibly not very accessible
www.dr.dk/lyd/p1/baby-pa-bestilling "Babies for order"

I think this might be the video mentioned in the documentary- put out by the surrogacy agency as good PR and hoping that countries would relax rules to let commissioning parents pick up the babies. But seeing the room full of cots shocked many people. (it's the same agency as in the BBC report posted by Slothtoes )

Thanks @Bergamotte, I'll check this out.

I saw this at the weekend. Celebrity (I say celebrity, she was Miss World in 2003, I think she is an 'influencer' and does something with Waterwipes...anyway) Roseanne Davison shared her concern for the birth mother of daughter Sophia

""I've been in touch today with our lovely surrogate who is also praying for peace and hoping to stay safe with her family.”

"Sending so much love to the people of Ukraine and everyone affected by this,” she added."

Notice how the article quickly focuses on her own life and experience and how there isn't a plan to offer refuge for the surrogate mother and her family at their home in Ireland. Sending love but not help.

www.sundayworld.com/showbiz/irish-showbiz/rosanna-davison-shares-worry-for-her-ukrainian-surrogate-41384487.html

Sorry to keep on posting but I keep finding articles that are worthy of sharing.

Here the commissioning couple push doctors for an early induction so they can get the baby out, then get out of Ukraine, ignoring medical advice:

"They knew they had to move fast to secure her travel documents. Without a birth certificate, the couple wouldn’t be able to legally take her out the country. Also, Vivian wasn’t eating well, so the couple had to hunt down alternate baby formulas to assure she was medically stable. The whole time, the specter of imminent war loomed.

After waking up to the sound of explosions Thursday morning, the Boeckmanns knew it was time to leave. They had Vivian’s birth certificate. But they didn’t have the doctor’s discharge order.
“No, you can’t leave without the doctor seeing the baby,” the nurses said.
“The baby is OK,” Jessie said. Anxious, she knew they had to get out soon.
After 30 minutes of back-and-forth, the couple and Vivian left despite the nurses’ objections."

www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-02-28/costa-mesa-couple-barely-escape-ukraine-with-days-old-newborn

The 'surrogate' birth mother at least gets a name and it ends with

"The couple know they are lucky to have gotten out of Ukraine, and said that their hearts break for the Ukrainian people — thousands of whom have taken up arms to resist the incoming Russianss_ — and others who remain in the war-torn country.
On Monday, Jessie received a text from Lilya.
“We are being shot very hard. We are constantly afraid,” the text read. “We are afraid of what will happen next.”

But they had an ordeal escaping so it's all ok - I hope that Baby Vivianne grows up and reads this and learns how the parents who raised her left her mother behind to take her chances.

God It's awful reading that @OhHolyJesus
I know when they embarked on the surrogacy they couldn't have predicted war breaking out exactly when the baby was due. And perhaps, once they were in that situation there was no other alternative to what they did, pleading for induction, taking the baby from hospital and rushing for the border. But it all certainly highlights western entitlement. The surrogate mother having no say over her body as the baby buyers demand she be delivered early. The nurses doing their best for the baby in their care as the buyers know better and run from the hospital with her. Exposing a new baby to such a perilous journey (not withstanding the obvious dangers of doing nothing). The taxi driver, paid to drive them to the border as his hysterical wife calls repeatedly needing him home with her (presumably). The thousands of Ukrainians queueing at the border as they take up the guards time, demanding special treatment and eventually getting waved through.
And finally the desperate texts from the surrogate mother still recovering from the birth. I wonder what sort of delivery she had, and what is happening with her family.

I would feel sick with guilt if I were them.

It's bad enough, for us here, living our lives, I was watching the news and feeling so guilty - planning an annual outing this weekend, pottering about the house, cooking supper, all those things the people of Ukraine suddenly can't do. Anyway, I'm off to make a donation to JK Rowling's Lumos appeal now. It's the least small thing I can do.

Short speech here from Posie Parker's meeting last weekend at Speaker's Corner - Lexi from Stop Surrogacy now.

So much information from the speaker - she really knows her stuff! The surrogacy industry can't claim to care about women when they implanted embryos in them in the middle of a war!!!

@OhHolyJesus

Sorry to keep on posting but I keep finding articles that are worthy of sharing.

Here the commissioning couple push doctors for an early induction so they can get the baby out, then get out of Ukraine, ignoring medical advice:

"They knew they had to move fast to secure her travel documents. Without a birth certificate, the couple wouldn’t be able to legally take her out the country. Also, Vivian wasn’t eating well, so the couple had to hunt down alternate baby formulas to assure she was medically stable. The whole time, the specter of imminent war loomed.

After waking up to the sound of explosions Thursday morning, the Boeckmanns knew it was time to leave. They had Vivian’s birth certificate. But they didn’t have the doctor’s discharge order.
“No, you can’t leave without the doctor seeing the baby,” the nurses said.
“The baby is OK,” Jessie said. Anxious, she knew they had to get out soon.
After 30 minutes of back-and-forth, the couple and Vivian left despite the nurses’ objections."

www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-02-28/costa-mesa-couple-barely-escape-ukraine-with-days-old-newborn

The 'surrogate' birth mother at least gets a name and it ends with

"The couple know they are lucky to have gotten out of Ukraine, and said that their hearts break for the Ukrainian people — thousands of whom have taken up arms to resist the incoming Russianss_ — and others who remain in the war-torn country.
On Monday, Jessie received a text from Lilya.
“We are being shot very hard. We are constantly afraid,” the text read. “We are afraid of what will happen next.”

But they had an ordeal escaping so it's all ok - I hope that Baby Vivianne grows up and reads this and learns how the parents who raised her left her mother behind to take her chances.

Omg. This story is chilling. Also, induction is seriously far more painful than natural labor and should only be used for health reasons - NOT because commissioning parents half a world away request it.

@Delphinium20

So much information from the speaker - she really knows her stuff! The surrogacy industry can't claim to care about women when they implanted embryos in them in the middle of a war!!!

Wait what? One clinic continued to implant embryos whilst Russia invaded?

Putin invaded on Tues 22nd...the staff at the clinic didn't think, hold on, shouldn't we maybe stop getting women pregnant as we enter a very real and frightening situation where being pregnant wouldn't be a good idea?

Actually I would guess that the staff did think of this but the bosses just see dollar signs and told them to continue as business as usual.

I genuinely hope that the majority of those embryos failed to implant so the women involved don't have to experience morning sickness, tiredness and all the other early signs of pregnancy whilst trying to flee a war zone.

If these women remain and can't leave their homes they may struggle for basic supplies let alone help with a miscarriage, possibly due to the cortisol levels in their blood.

Just horrific. Women are just a collection of useful body parts at times. This really shows up the reality of surrogacy in Ukraine. The brokers should be ashamed but I doubt it even registers.

To-day I listened to an interview with Leo Varadkar, where he spoke of Irish children stuck in Ukraine. The interviewer (Pat Kenny) never expanded to ask how there were Irish children in Ukraine who needed embassy help to get out (that is why we are keeping the Russian Ambassador in Ireland apparently!!), but no mention of their mothers. Of course, Varadkar is part of that clique that support the buying of children for people who "want" them. And the use of women as cattle.

I cannot get my head around the total lack of critical thinking in Ireland re surrogacy, and if I see or hear that Senator woman on about it again, I will scream. Between this and the GRA, I fear we are not one step forward from the Magdalene Laundries, we have just replaced one set of male, misogynistic, overlords with another.

Anasgirl I agree!

Just looked at the baby Luke story , the parents look like they are 55 wtf it definitely wasn't her egg!!! Highly selfish and entitled couple, they don't mention the birth mother once. Horrible countries need to ban international surrogacy and make it impossible to be granted a parental order nobody has the right to buy a womb.

I note from a comment above that Denmark ban surrogacy under people trafficking laws. This is something that should be the case everywhere.

I fear we are not one step forward from the Magdalene Laundries, we have just replaced one set of male, misogynistic, overlords with another.

I don't really understand this comment re male overlords - Irish women use surrogacy as an option as well as Irish men.

the parents look like they are 55 wtf it definitely wasn't her egg!!!
Egg freezing has been an option for women for quite some time now. We have no idea if it was her egg or not. (I'm not saying I agree with surrogacy btw).

Ireland is heavily connected to Ukraine and here again, there is no mention of what happens to the Surrogate mother.

Irish babies born in Kyiv to surrogate mothers are evacuated amid fighting - Independent.iee_

Irish babies? Pretty sure they have Ukrainian birth certificates...

Minister Helen McEntee is leading the committee looking at international surrogacy and Stop Surrogacy Now U.K. spoke about this - here is the letter they sent.

twitter.com/wombsnotforrent/status/1497945858746236935?s=21

Absolutely sickening. With all of the fluffy language, I sometimes forget the reality of surrogacy - literally paying a poor woman to carry and birth a child for a wealth woman. Truly dystopian. And yet her we are.