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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Surrogacy in Ukraine - Times article

165 replies

Soontobe60 · 20/02/2022 09:20

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/surrogate-mothers-fear-pressure-to-flee-ukraine-gsntx9z7f?shareToken=39849d90d0863ecb43166b4738993526
So it would seem that in Ukraine, they admit that surrogacy is big business that will suffer economically if Russia invades. And the poor foreign clients will want the surrogates to move out of the country if it happens - despite them having their own families! Talk about exploitation!!

OP posts:
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OhHolyJesus · 26/02/2022 08:26

Newborn babies have already been moved from a hospital in Ukraine to a bomb shelter. Video in the link.

www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/24/world/russia-attacks-ukraine

FannyCann · 26/02/2022 09:23

Those poor, poor women.
As if it's not bad enough giving birth in a bomb shelter, heaven forbid any complications like a haemorrhage or needing an LSCS.
Even if they give birth with a straightforward delivery, they must be desperate with worry about their families, their teen sons and brothers who are being called up to fight.
And what of the babies. It's all very well having a bomb shelter full of babies but how to get them out and across the border?

Shame on any government facilitating the buyers getting their babies - whilst I recognise the surrogate mothers are unlikely to want them and any future in Ukraine would be uncertain so the best life for the babies will be elsewhere, but the fact is they will need to be smuggled across borders with no paperwork, many of the neighbouring countries to Ukraine, like Poland, ban surrogacy so sorting out paperwork for these babies will be difficult to put it mildly, or more likely involve some big fat lies. It's people smuggling straight up and governments benignly facilitating the baby buyers are facilitating the farming of women, and the sale of babies.

It's truly sickening.

OhHolyJesus · 26/02/2022 09:51

some big fat lies And some big fat bribes.

I've been thinking about how communications will be affected and the banks. The monies paid to the surrogacy agency aren't going to be paid out to these women upon giving birth and fulfilling the contract. The final payment will be held by the surrogacy agency and it will be at their discretion to pay it. Final paperwork will have to be completed first. The coercive control is not limited to the commissioning parents.

The banks will have to be fully operational to process transactions and I don't think for a moment that there is no corruption going on in these agencies. Last time, during the pandemic, they shamed women who fled back across the borders to their families and didn't pay they monies owed.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 26/02/2022 10:50

Fucking hell.

Fucking

fucking

fucking hell.

DomesticatedZombie · 26/02/2022 11:13

JFC.

That's beyond the worst dystopian fiction I can imagine. Battery farmed babies.

I'm sorry, I find this stuff hard to watch.

DomesticatedZombie · 26/02/2022 11:14

Shame on anyone who's created this horrible situation.

OhHolyJesus · 26/02/2022 11:32

Oh dear, the Russian invasion is causing havoc for the baby selling brokers.

"Ukraine is the second most popular destination after the United States for foreign couples seeking surrogacy services, according to Growing Families, a nonprofit organization working with couples seeking surrogacy and fertility treatment in Ukraine and around the world. An estimated 2,000 to 2,500 children are born through surrogacy in Ukraine each year, and at least 1,500 couples living in the US, UK, Ireland, Australia, and elsewhere have surrogate mothers and embryos stored at clinics in Ukraine, says Sam Everingham, global director of Growing Families."

qz.com/2133797/russias-invasion-is-damaging-ukraines-booming-surrogacy-industry/

The article says the women are being transported, makes me think of cattle.

How many women will have their families with them in the 200 capacity bomb shelter BioTexCom have built? Can they bring elderly parents and kids too, or do you only gain access if you are a registered surrogate mother, pregnant or in labour?

BettyFilous · 26/02/2022 11:54

If I was a surrogate in Ukraine with a, say, 8 week pregnancy I’d be seeking a medical termination. There’s no way I’d be parted from my own kids or contemplating going to term in a conflict zone with medical services in free fall and all the attendant risks. The whole situation is awful.

OhHolyJesus · 27/02/2022 08:30

The commissioning parents may regret being so public about the purchase of a baby from a woman now left in Ukraine.

twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1497185860730634244?s=21

OhHolyJesus · 27/02/2022 08:38

@BettyFilous

If I was a surrogate in Ukraine with a, say, 8 week pregnancy I’d be seeking a medical termination. There’s no way I’d be parted from my own kids or contemplating going to term in a conflict zone with medical services in free fall and all the attendant risks. The whole situation is awful.
I wouldn't count on that being available, gynaecology services will be focused on getting babies delivered as safely as possible, what they do with the prematurely-born newborns in an underground bomb shelter I don't know.

The rest will be dealing with injuries of war. All 'non-essential' medical treatment will be closed.

When safe, affordable abortion isn't available women do take things into their own hands and I'm sure some women who are pregnant ( under surrogacy or not) will miscarry from the stress.

It is truly a desperate situation and highlights, again, how women are exploited through surrogacy. I thought Covid was enough of a warning, apparently not.

GreenClock · 27/02/2022 09:38

Shameful. When will this grim practice of renting wombs be outlawed?

C8H10N4O2 · 27/02/2022 09:42

@BettyFilous

If I was a surrogate in Ukraine with a, say, 8 week pregnancy I’d be seeking a medical termination. There’s no way I’d be parted from my own kids or contemplating going to term in a conflict zone with medical services in free fall and all the attendant risks. The whole situation is awful.
You are assuming that the contract allows the surrogate to terminate or make any medical decisions about her own body whilst under contract.

Where the law doesn't allow for the procuring partner to "own" the woman's body during the contract then massive financial penalties such as having to pay all the medical and legal bills are put in place making "choice" a meaningless concept to the usually lower income women used as surrogates.

FannyCann · 27/02/2022 10:09

You are correct about contracts @C8H10N4O2 under normal circumstances, however I imagine all that has flown out of the window with the first Russian bomb. Citizens of Ukraine are now fighting for survival. For women newly pregnant or heavily pregnant with a paying customer's baby the landscape has changed. In late pregnancy there isn't much option other than to find a safe place to deliver. Whether a bomb shelter meets the definition of a safe place to have a baby is another matter, given the lack of availability emergency treatment.
Crossing the border to Poland will be tricky as they do not recognise surrogacy so the woman may be left with the baby unless she does a runner from the hospital. She will also have her family and children to worry about. In early pregnancy I would definitely be looking at means of procuring an abortion. Again, Poland is not a good place to be as they have all but banned abortion.

Here is an email update from HeyReprotech, a newsletter I subscribe to.

What about surrogates mid-process?

The day after the war started, I began to wonder what was happening with surrogates who were mid-process.
Surrogacy requires that you take hormones for about two weeks** to thicken the uterine lining, so that an embryo can implant and thrive there. Some women may have just started on hormones. Others have had embryos recently transferred. Still others might be having pregnancy complications or be nearing the birth. Is there care available?
I also started thinking about the many Ukrainian women who act as egg donors. At the very end of donation, a woman takes a shot that causes the eggs to ripen. They have to be retrieved within about 36 hours. Were there women in Kyiv who were scheduled to do retrievals that Thursday morning? If so, were retrievals done? If not, what happens?
I emailed all the clinics I'd been in touch with to ask. I wanted to know if they opened at all, and if they did procedures of any kind.
I did not hear back. The situation continued to worsen in Kyiv yesterday.
This morning, I got an email from Diana Donskaya, head of international marketing at Adonis, a large clinic and surrogacy provider, based in Kyiv:
Alison, my busyness is to protect my family and my country against russian aggression and artillery shelling and rockets from russia
War is our reality today. Try to understand

The missing full stop was how it was in the email, I don't know if that is how it was sent by Diana but I am picturing a woman to frantic to bother with the niceties of punctuation.

It has raised questions for me however. Does anyone here know what happens to a woman whose ovaries have been heavily overstimulated to produce dozens of eggs if the egg collection doesn't proceed?
In the U.K. the NHS picks up the complications from the fertility industry - my hospital had 24 admissions for OHSS, with at least one that I know of ending up in icu in 2019. I've no idea what happens in such cases in Ukraine in normal times and now the hospitals will be prioritising treatment of the wounded and preparing for more wounded. Dealing with the fall out of the fertility industry won't be popular priority.

FannyCann · 27/02/2022 10:12

From an update from HeyReprotech dated February 21st they were pretty much carrying on as normal. There absolutely will be women in the middle of an egg collection cycle or newly implanted with an embryo.

Surrogacy in Ukraine - Times article
Hasselhoffsheadband · 27/02/2022 10:58

[quote OhHolyJesus]The commissioning parents may regret being so public about the purchase of a baby from a woman now left in Ukraine.

twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1497185860730634244?s=21[/quote]
Shock

Barrawarra · 27/02/2022 11:41

I came on to speak about this story of baby Luke and the terrifying zero mention of his mother who was presumably left in Ukraine bleeding in a war zone without the child she has carried. And so much more dystopian horrors I have read in this thread. How horrifying.

malloo · 27/02/2022 11:45

I've been a bit on the fence about surrogacy tbh, didn't know much about it so wasn't sure what I thought. This thread has just tipped me violently off my fence! Of course it's wrong, those poor women and their families. No one has the right to buy a baby.

FannyCann · 27/02/2022 11:45

Timely reminder of the Law Commission's plans for surrogacy in the U.K. from Catherine Bennett.

twitter.com/canfordheather/status/1497859084669923330?s=21

AppleButter · 27/02/2022 12:42

rp-online.de/nrw/panorama/deutsche-sitzen-in-der-ukraine-fest-paar-mit-baby-aus-heinsberg_aid-66620347

Also reported in german media, but absolutely no mention of the surrogates - just that the couple are legally registered as the parents and that they cant get out of the country because important papers are missing (i guess birth certificates?) and they dont want to travel to the border for fear that the man will be accosted by the Russians.
I suppose we are meant to feel massive sympathy and yet the actual mother is probably in a subway bunker right now with limited medical care.

VaddaABeetch · 27/02/2022 13:46

I’m heartened to see the comments on the Kerry couple. All I’m hearing here in Ireland is stunning & brave & that the surrogate mother is not the ‘real’ mother.

Perhaps the tide is turning here in Ireland.

Humbold · 27/02/2022 14:14

I can't imagine dealing with the post-partum mayhem of engorged breasts, bleeding, sore stitches, hormonal ups and downs and being stuck in the middle of a war zone minus the baby you've carried for 9 months. I hope that every time the 'purchasers' sniff that beautiful, newborn head, they spare a thought for the woman who gave life to and kept that baby safe and nourished for nine months within her body.

maggie100 · 27/02/2022 14:26

NC for this. I have an Irish friend who is using a surrogate in Ukraine. I won't go into details here but I'm utterly sickened at the elaborate plan she is creating to get the baby out. It's entirely about them and all concern for the mother appears to have gone.

Soontobe60 · 27/02/2022 15:32

@maggie100

NC for this. I have an Irish friend who is using a surrogate in Ukraine. I won't go into details here but I'm utterly sickened at the elaborate plan she is creating to get the baby out. It's entirely about them and all concern for the mother appears to have gone.
Anyone who uses a surrogate has NO concerns about the mother to begin with!
OP posts:
OchonAgusOchonOh · 27/02/2022 15:38

@maggie100

NC for this. I have an Irish friend who is using a surrogate in Ukraine. I won't go into details here but I'm utterly sickened at the elaborate plan she is creating to get the baby out. It's entirely about them and all concern for the mother appears to have gone.
I very much doubt there was ever any concern for the birth mother for it to be gone.

I find attitudes here in Ireland to this whole process really weird. Everyone deplores the actions of the Catholic Church selling babies in the past, but yet it's OK to rent a womb and buy a baby as the surrogate is doing it of their own choice.

Similar attitudes were evident at the height of international adoptions. It was all about the wants of the prospective parents, rather than the needs of the child or their mother.

A relative of mine adopted internationally and basically said he didn't want to know anything about how their child came up for adoption as you hear terrible stories about women being coerced, babies being abducted etc in order to supply the adoption market.

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