Surrogacy in Ukraine - Times article

[Soontobe60]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/surrogate-mothers-fear-pressure-to-flee-ukraine-gsntx9z7f?shareToken=39849d90d0863ecb43166b4738993526
So it would seem that in Ukraine, they admit that surrogacy is big business that will suffer economically if Russia invades. And the poor foreign clients will want the surrogates to move out of the country if it happens - despite them having their own families! Talk about exploitation!!

Part One, below, is a Q&A with a Canadian whose child is due in April. I spoke to her last night.

Your baby will be born soon.
End of April.
When you first did the embryo transfer, and were thinking about the birth, what did you envision?
Our surrogate was going to give birth in Kyiv. There's a maternity hospital there. We would fly in about two weeks prior and be, if not present, present shortly thereafter. And then we'd go through the process of bringing him home.
And as things started to heat up in the last couple of weeks, how did the plan evolve?
So she is in Lviv now. I think there were two concerns. Number one was that she was going to a place that had good medical care. But also a place that was considered to be safe in terms of what we were hearing about possible invasion.
How much input did you have into the decision to move her? And did you talk to her about it?
We talk almost daily, via text. And yes, we were very involved in the decision to have her moved. But our agency was one of the very first ones that moved anybody. At the time, it was sort of thought that they're just being very cautious. But ultimately we did have a say. And she was also, of course, consulted. I mean, it's her body and her person, and she should be consulted on all decisions, and be okay with them.
And how did she feel about the idea of moving?
To be honest, she wasn't very happy about it. I think a lot of Ukrainians at the time were not convinced that this was a real threat. And, you know, she's got family, and I think there was a concern about her going to Lviv. In her particular case, it puts her even farther away from her family. It wasn't that she was saying no, it was just that she needed to understand why the move was taking place.
Did she end up bringing her family with her?
I don't know if she doesn't want them to come or if they physically can't come — it was lost in translation. We obviously said if she wants them to be with her, we would cover all costs related with that, and support her in whatever way needed.
And now there has been an invasion. What is the plan now?
I don't think that there is a plan. I think there are a number of different plans. It literally, I think, will be a day-by-day thing.
So sometime towards the end of April you're going over.
We're going somewhere. I don't know where that will be. I think there's a number of different options. Poland is one. Moldova is another. It'll be dependent on where she gives birth, first of all, and then, what the process is to get into the country and bring our son home.
Is there any discussion right now of taking your surrogate outside of the country?
Yes, but that's still under review right now. It's going to depend on her safety ultimately, and also what she's comfortable with. I mean, you have to have a certain level of trust in your surrogate to be able to make the right decision for herself and for our son. And in our particular case, I do trust her.
How was she today [Thursday, 24 Feb]?
She was calm, actually. She's trying to not watch the news. She reiterated that it's her responsibility to take care of our son and keep him safe. That's what she's trying to focus on. As well as, you know, interacting with her family and making sure that they're safe.
Was today worse than previous days? Or has it been bad the whole time?
Today was worse. This is the only bad day I've had, if I'm being honest. A lot of people did not think that this was actually a possibility, especially to this extent. And so definitely today was by far the worst day.
It's frightening. As humans, we'd like certainty. With the IVF process, for anybody that's been through it, the one thing you don't have is certainty. And so the anxiety is familiar, but it's coming from a place that you don't expect.
What do you want people to know about international surrogacy, and about surrogacy in Ukraine in particular?
To get to the spot where you need to use surrogacy — that in itself means that you've been through a lot. This is not anybody's first choice. In our case, this has been four years and many miscarriages and finding out ultimately that I couldn't carry.
We looked at surrogacy in Canada, we looked at surrogacy in the US. And to be honest, we didn't have good experiences. International surrogacy has given us the possibility to have a family, which is something that at one point I didn't think we would be able to have.
In Ukraine, I think because of the culture and the people, I think there's a level of commitment to making sure that the surrogates are taken care of. I can't speak for anybody else, I don't know what anyone else's experiences are like, but there's a huge focus on my surrogate's health, and how she feels about treatments. And we did not get that level of care in North America. And I wish that people knew that, you know, it's not just a baby making machine, this is a place that offers people hope that don't have it.
The reality is she will be a member of our family for the rest of our lives. Our son will know who she is, and hopefully, will get to meet her when he's older.

"How much input did you have into the decision to move her? And did you talk to her about it?
We talk almost daily, via text. And yes, we were very involved in the decision to have her moved. But our agency was one of the very first ones that moved anybody. At the time, it was sort of thought that they're just being very cautious. But ultimately we did have a say. And she was also, of course, consulted. I mean, it's her body and her person, and she should be consulted on all decisions, and be okay with them."

The level of ownership and entitlement is off the scale - "We were very involved in the decision to have her moved"

and yet they clearly think they are so reasonable: "she was also, of course, consulted. I mean, it's her body and her person, and she should be consulted on all decisions, and be okay with them."
That's big of them.

[quote Slothtoes]I feel so frightened for everyone in Ukraine, what an absolutely terrifying situation. And the impossible situation for women and couples involved in surrogacy there.

In Covid ‘stranded’ babies were left to cry alone in rows of cots in Ukraine hotel rooms, with one supervising adult to feed them, awaiting collection by international parents who weren’t allowed to into the country. This is a video report about it which should come with a trigger warning.
BBC News Coronavirus: Surrogate babies stranded in Ukraine
www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-52673225[/quote]
Made me cry, those poor babies

And then the self justification:

"To get to the spot where you need to use surrogacy — that in itself means that you've been through a lot. This is not anybody's first choice. In our case, this has been four years and many miscarriages and finding out ultimately that I couldn't carry."

And I find this VERY hard to believe.

"In Ukraine, I think because of the culture and the people, I think there's a level of commitment to making sure that the surrogates are taken care of. I can't speak for anybody else, I don't know what anyone else's experiences are like, but there's a huge focus on my surrogate's health, and how she feels about treatments."

Maybe they are with a very good ethical agency. Maybe.
But I've read plenty of articles that suggest the opposite. Such that I feel a tiny - teeny tiny - modicum of sympathy for commissioning parents too as these agencies are all about the profit and are not remotely interested in protecting the interests of commissioning parents. They are just a source of income.

It's a while since I've watched it but the YouTube documentary about poor little baby Bridget also featured British parents who had been appalled by the lack of care for their sickly baby after it had been born.

@Soontobe60

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/surrogate-mothers-fear-pressure-to-flee-ukraine-gsntx9z7f?shareToken=39849d90d0863ecb43166b4738993526 So it would seem that in Ukraine, they admit that surrogacy is big business that will suffer economically if Russia invades. And the poor foreign clients will want the surrogates to move out of the country if it happens - despite them having their own families! Talk about exploitation!!

I read somewhere that the won't move the women out of the Ukraine despite the danger as if the babies are born in a country with different laws, the contract won't hold up and the birth mother would be classed as the mother legally.

Doesn't sound as if the well being of the surrogate mothers is the priority from this article.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/15/the-stranded-babies-of-kyiv-and-the-women-who-give-birth-for-money

There are definitely problems associated with moving surrogate mothers to other jurisdictions @OchonAgusOchonOh

Ukraine borders with several countries, I was looking at a map today and hadn't realised how many countries share maybe just a short stretch of border with Ukraine and there will be different laws relating to surrogacy depending where they go.
I have seen reports of surrogate mothers being required to tell big lies about their circumstances and the parentage of the baby they are carrying in some other countries they end up giving birth in.

The truth is McMafia is much involved with many of the agencies there and they will find a way to sidestep the law wherever they are. It's called people trafficking.

Absolutely sick.

The poor mothers and babies, exploited and purchased.

What could possibly go wrong when you start buying and selling human beings across the globe.

This shows how inhumane surrogacy is, buying a baby is not engineering some philanthropic great gift. At the end of the day the buyers want their baby and they don’t really care about much else. Apparently they don’t even care about their actual baby enough to think about how traumatic it is for them to be removed from the only comfort they've ever known at days old.

This is second part of a two-part post about what it's like to be an intended parent doing surrogacy in Ukraine right now.
3 minute read
Your surrogate is in Lviv.
Correct. And we have been told that there is zero fighting in Lviv, there is tons of food, and everything is — I don't want to use the word normal — but everything is normal over in Lviv.
Okay, good. And can you remind me of your due date?
She's eight weeks now, so end of October, beginning of November. She had some complications early on with the pregnancy. We put in two embryos, and she lost one. And now there's just one baby.
You have been concerned about your last remaining frozen embryo too. Has it been moved to safety?
Yes. We got confirmation yesterday that the embryo and my husband's remaining sperm was shipped to Lviv and it arrived safely. I actually kind of freaked out, because originally they said that if you move your embryos and biomaterials to Lviv, you would not have access to it — they would lock it down and you wouldn't be able to use it for six months, seven months, eight months, whenever they open it. So I kind of freaked out because, you know, God forbid this doesn't work, we need access to our embryo. But that rule has changed. We can access it. It's not going into lockdown.
There was some question about the price for moving that material.
We did not have to pay for it. They moved all of the embryos and biomaterial to safety at no charge to the intended parents.
How and when did you learn out about the invasion?
On CNN, MSNBC. My parents called me yesterday morning. My dad's like, 'Turn the news on.'
What were you thinking when you heard?
I was panicking. I was worried. I've developed some friendships that I think are going to last a lifetime.
Do you know anything about your surrogate's family situation? Is her family safe?
The only thing I know is that her husband and child are with her in Lviv. This is our fourth surrogate. My husband and I decided that we did not want to meet the surrogate until she passed the three month mark, because it's too hard. We got so attached to the second surrogate, and then it didn't work out. So, I don't really know anything except her husband and son moved with her. And that they were not happy to move. They did not want to leave.
And how do they feel now? Are they glad they did? Do you know?
I don't know.
So what are the things on your mind right now?
I'm worried about, you know, if and when the city of Kyiv falls, what's next? You know, are the Russians going to continue to move throughout the country? And how safe is Lviv? When is there going to be bombing, when is it going to be unsafe to stay in Lviv? What are the contingency plans when Lviv becomes unsafe?
And what are you hearing?
That they'll move them to another safe town. That's great. But what happens when Ukraine is not safe anymore? They said it depends on the point in pregnancy of the surrogate. I would assume a surrogate who was seven months, eight months, nine months, about to give birth, is more immediate than someone who's only three months or four months. That's my interpretation, but I don't know.
Final thoughts?
Selfishly, I'm really concerned about my surrogate and my baby. But, you know, I'm also thinking about the woman in the clinic, who I saw every day for 17 days, when I went to Kyiv for IVF. She administered my shots. Where is she? Where is her family?

"We put in two embryos, and she lost one."

"This is our fourth surrogate."

"So, I don't really know anything except her husband and son moved with her. And that they were not happy to move. They did not want to leave."

How much more does anyone want to know about commercial surrogacy? I just can't say all the things I think when I read those statements. It's modern day slavery.

$90k

I wonder how much the woman risking her life, and life changing birth injuries gets from that?

It makes me sick. Women’s bodies are not a workplace. This is human trafficking

☹️

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I'd love one of the surrogacy apologists to come and tell us how the this is all going to be ok, no harm done

Exactly.

Hope you're not holding your breath.

When I posted the link originally, I didn’t even consider how worse it could get, and now the reality is here. The comments of those people who have contracted women in Ukraine to incubate their babies are beyond awful.
It’s almost as if the mothers are not seen as being human beings - they’re just equipment that has to be kept safe in order to do a good job.
Human trafficking in full view of the world.

Exactly @Soontobe60

I, too, am waiting spartacus.

This couple must realize they have taken advantage of a woman in a vulnerable state. Surely. Or maybe they are now fully engulfed by their saviour position.

Let’s recap. The surrogate mother has moved and her family when they may have had very good reasons for staying where they were (elderly parents for example).

And these parents cannot see the coercive nature of their ‘contract’? Typical.

Did she end up bringing her family with her?
I don't know if she doesn't want them to come or if they physically can't come — it was lost in translation. We obviously said if she wants them to be with her we would cover all costs related with that and support her in whatever way needed."

Well isn't that kind. What the fuck am I reading.

Interesting from that interview that the surrogate mother is expected to look after the baby until the parents can get custody. The same woman who was expected not to have any emotional bond with the child, and to hand it over without any emotional fall out - the argument often made by apologists that surrogates do not bond with a baby not genetically theirs and that they shouldn't expect to make any emotional tie - not her egg, not her partner's sperm, nothing to do with her.

I wonder how many surrogate mothers in early pregnancy will get themselves an abortion asap. I don't know what the rules are in Ukraine even in normal times. If they cross the border into Poland they are out of luck as Poland has all but banned abortion. I seem to remember there are particular problems with surrogacy there too, so they are really out of luck if they arrive in Poland.

I'm reading this and seeing the purchasers caring about the baby and maybe the incubator surrogate, and that's pretty much it. No care for the families, the other children, the fact these women have lives settled where they are. No, just uproot yourself in a time of utter crisis to protect our embryos and we'll dress it up as though we care for you when in fact you're just collateral.

I hardly have words for how appalling and callous this is. The poor women and babies. Surrogacy needs to be outlawed.

That Instagram post OhHolyJesus posted sounds like something out of The Handmaid's Tale. 'Pregnant surrogates.'

That interview @FannyCann

It wasn't that she was saying no, it was just that she needed to understand why the move was taking place.

This is sick, implies she is stupid and doesn't understand as well as she just needs to do as she is told. It drips with entitlement and control.

They will be disappointed as the surrogacy arrangement will be null and void a where outside of Ukraine. Ukraine's laws only apply in Ukraine. Funny that.

Surrogacy agency - the one that was in the news with 100 surrogacy born babies during the covid pandemic and whose CEO has admitted that they don't always implant the right embryo - has built a bomb shelter.

"I n anticipation of the Ukraine-Russia conflict, BioTexCom, a Kyiv-based fertility clinic, for expectant surrogate mothers and newborn babies, which is equipped with cribs, gas masks, and other essential items."

nowthisnews.com/news/kyiv-fertility-clinic-creates-bomb-shelter-for-surrogate-moms-and-babies

Forget your maternity hospital commissioning parents, your 'surrogate' could be trapped underground with minimum pain relief and an oxygen mask.