Where can I buy a bra?

[GoldenGorilla]

Need new bras but would like to be fitted properly. By a woman. In a changing area that only has women in it.

Are there any actual shops I can go to? Or do I need to buy a hundred bras online and probably return 99 of them?

[quote Doubletoilandtrouble]@passwordnotsecure

I don’t want to be fitted by a male and I don’t want my DD12 to be fitted by a male.

I also don’t want any hidden cameras in the changing rooms (I have read about how to detect them and will do a quick search and hand any I find over to the police).

I don’t want any male wanking in the cubicle next to me or my DD. I have seen enough internet posts of males doing this to believe there is a risk. Anyone doing this, I will photograph (without them seeing) and report to the police, with the additional information that it was next to a 12 year old girl. I have found the police very protective of children in the past.

Finally, and suspicious, leering male will also be photographed (without them seeing) and the photo added to my letter of complaint and potentially social media after I have taken legal advice.[/quote]
Very unlikely. Don't get obsessed.
This is beginning to sound like The Self-Righteous Brothers.
Oi, suspicious leering male in the next cubicle, NO!

I always find it ironic when a poster compares excluding Transwomen from female single sex spaces as the same as excluding minority women from those spaces but don't have the critical thought to realise that allowing Transwomen in to those spaces will actually exclude many minority women from using them.

No one is denying you that. I'm sure the vast majority of bra fitting and changing rooms are exactly that.

they are unisex try looking into it.

I raised this issue with my local branch of Bravissimo and they assured me that they use a separate changing area for any XY customers. Or anyone else who needs more space or privacy, for example.

She also told me that they are always mindful of the safety and welfare of customers and staff.

I used to think it didn't matter who was in another locked cubicle.

But I was a naïve teenager. I'm not now.

extract

Jason Pomare, 33, of Palmdale, was arrested Saturday after customers contacted security officers at a Macy's store to report a man in the women's restroom. The security officers contacted a deputy, who was on patrol at the Antelope Valley Mall (map) when he saw a man matching the subject's description leave the store.

When the deputy found the man hiding in a mall storage area, the subject was wearing a wig, women's clothing and bra, according to a statement from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

"The deputy noticed he was wearing a wig and appeared to have breasts," said Sgt. Brian Hudson, of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

Pomare (pictured, right) was charged Tuesday with six counts of unlawful use of a concealed camera for purposes of sexual gratification. After his arrest, investigators said a video camera found in his purse had "hours" of video of women using the restroom inside the store.

The suspect pointed the concealed camera under restroom stalls, but one woman recognized the camera's red recording light and contacted security officers, investigators said. Pomare told detectives he had been in the restroom for about two hours, said Hudson.

www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/secret-recording-store-mall-antelope-valley-palmdale-restroom/2061060/

extract

A man who tried to take pictures of schoolgirls getting changed at a swimming pool was later found to have hundreds of illicit pictures on his phone.

Simon Wassell, 33, was spotted using his mobile to try and snap the children.

Police later found nearly 600 images of unidentified women on his phones, Plymouth Crown Court heard.

A judge told Wassell that his behaviour was “perverse”.

(Continues)

Hollie Gilbery, for the Crown Prosecution Service, said the two 13-year-old friends were getting changed in separate cubicles at Tavistock’s Meadowlands swimming pool at about 12.30pm.

She added that one girl looked up and saw a phone being held above the cubicle and angling down towards her.

(Continues)

Miss Gilbery said the girls reported what had happened to reception and staff allowed them to change in another cubicle as they stood guard.

She added that Wassell was identified and arrested at the pool.

The court heard police found two deleted images of one of the girls, one taken from below and one from above. She was covered with a towel.

Officers also discovered 14 images of adult women in states of undress and totally naked, who appear to be oblivious to the camera.

(Continues)

www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/police-find-hundreds-perverted-pictured-637758

Various sites have illicit footage of women in changing rooms. Where do you think it comes from?

@Beth13579

I am not bothered about men being in there, I am bothered about men going in there to put hidden cameras in the changing rooms

But it's ok if a woman puts a hidden camera in the changing rooms?

This thread is bonkers.

And you think it is equally as likely that any hidden camera will have been placed by a woman, do you?

Another incident in Devon. Different swimming pool, different man.

extract

A Peeping Tom left a 15-year-old swimmer terrified of getting changed when he used a mobile phone to film her over the top of a cubicle.

Edward Smith locked himself in a neighbouring cubicle in the mixed gender changing area as a group of swimmers aged ten to 17 were ending a training session.

He waited for the swimmers to get out and then held his hand up to take photos of the naked girl, who screamed in horror when she spotted his phone.

Smith fled the changing room at the Exe Valley Leisure Centre in Tiverton but police released a grainy CCTV image which led to the 40-year-old farmer being identified and arrested.

Analysts then found images on his phone and computer which proved he had done the same thing at the same swimming pool twice before.

(Continues)

A victim impact statement from the 15-year-old girl said that swimming used to be her ‘happy place’ but she is now so scared that she insists on having friends in both neighbouring cubicles whenever she changes.

(Continues)

Police found two other sets of photos on the phone, dating back to August and October 2019. One, which showed a teenage girl, had been retained. Another with a middle-aged woman had been deleted.

www.northdevongazette.co.uk/news/peeping-tom-left-girl-swimmer-scared-changing-room-7988374

Presumably the middle-aged mumsnetters should be reassured and stop finding secret filming to be a horrendous infringement of their dignity, because a voyeuristic man might delete the pictures afterwards, eh?

@ScribblingPixie

I agree with the poster who said the best fitters can judge by eye as well as their measuring tape. I bought a batch of Rigby & Peller bras in a closing down sale which were perfect and are still going strong after 15 years so you do get your money's worth. I'd even buy them (slightly) second hand because the quality is so good.

Oh my god, over £100 for a bra! Really worth it?

John Lewis saved my life with an excellent fitting. The cabins are private. Just go and treat yourself to a nice bra.

But it's ok if a woman puts a hidden camera in the changing rooms?
Lol. Surely you don't actually believe that there are women who put up hidden cameras to spy on other women trying on bras?

Ah that’ll be all those predatory lesbians putting cameras in womens changing rooms won’t it

Lol. Surely you don't actually believe that there are women who put up hidden cameras to spy on other women trying on bras?

As long as there are (natal) female sex offenders, then there will be women that have the potential to do that.

It's naivety like yours that is why female sex offenders get away with it. It's why children in a nursery were subject to abuse. Because a woman would never do that, would they?

dam it, really upset about Bravissimo, have used them for years, buying online, only went into Solihull shop 20 years ago, before all of this unisex

changing room nonsense .
almost want to go to a shop now in order to 'make a scene'

@CorrBlimeyGG

Lol. Surely you don't actually believe that there are women who put up hidden cameras to spy on other women trying on bras?

As long as there are (natal) female sex offenders, then there will be women that have the potential to do that.

It's naivety like yours that is why female sex offenders get away with it. It's why children in a nursery were subject to abuse. Because a woman would never do that, would they?

OMG do you mean the 1% of sex offenders who are female are the ones we should really be worrying about? gosh. All this time. Who knew?

Of course, now the police are recording 'gender' as self declared instead of sex, we can expect to see that proportion rise astronomically.

Hm. Wonder what the figures are comparing 'female sex offenders' with 'males who identify as women sex offenders'? That would be interesting to look into. If we had the data. But of course, nobody collects that because it might upset people*.

*- never mind the victims! It's the sex offenders' feelings that matter, of course.

@KimikosNightmare

I don't see the issue with who else is in the vicinity there once you're in your own locked compartment I'm 47 years old, have tried on hundreds (if not thousands) of different items of clothing in changing rooms over the last 35 years and can never once remember being awkward or threatened by others in there (apart from in those awful open plan, communal changing spaces in 1990s Top Shop - yes, I admit they were a bit awkward)

Exactly- although I'm 62. I expect this will be dismissed as a sample of 2.

M&S apparently had one trans woman bra fitter in one London store and that now equates to all bra shops being unsafe for women.

And I've been fitted by a (gay) man before* - he had great advice on how to alter my dress to fit the bra I had chosen. It was a great bra and great advice!

*German store, in the late 1980ies

Similar incidents in Manchester

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/sexual-predator-stalked-trafford-centre-17587831

A 'sexual predator' secretly filmed dozens of women and children without their knowledge while they used changing rooms and toilets.

“William David Smith made secret recordings in a disabled toilet at the Trafford Centre , as well as at Darwen Leisure Centre, sunbed shops in Greater Manchester and neighbouring Lancashire and other leisure centre wet rooms across Lancashire over a four-year period”.

[quote GoldenGorilla]@dizzydizzydizzy Yeah you’re right I can’t really ask for recommendations but be coy about my location! South west England, so London, bath, Bristol are my Normal shopping places!

@ShineTogether - that’s interesting about Victoria’s Secret. Must admit I ruled them out years ago (they insisted their models had bmi of 18.5 which is clinically underweight, so insane) but maybe they’ve changed.

@ValancyRedfern - sadly John Lewis has fallen also.[/quote]
Given your location, have you tried

bellissimalingerie.com/

in Sherborne, Dorset?

I used a branch which now no longer exists, & they were spot on for fitting (R&P trained) & had beautiful stock. No idea about males.

OMG do you mean the 1% of sex offenders who are female are the ones we should really be worrying about? gosh. All this time. Who knew?
No don't you understand? Since a small minority of female sex offenders also exists, it means that we shouldn't worry about male sex offenders or men putting up spy cams in changing rooms. It's all very logical.

We shouldn't worry about safety at all in unisex changing rooms since worrying about safety based on our experiences and the news would be just laughable, am I right ladies?

@M0RVEN

I raised this issue with my local branch of Bravissimo and they assured me that they use a separate changing area for any XY customers. Or anyone else who needs more space or privacy, for example.

She also told me that they are always mindful of the safety and welfare of customers and staff.

I tried raising it with Bravissimo corporate customer services and they were very much poor tw and bekind . I haven’t been back into the shops to ask.

I have reason to know hidden cameras are put in places like this and separately been subject to sustained harassment where the stalker put in a lot of effort. The thought of footage of me in a state of undress on line as facial recognition improves fills me with horror. As soon as female changing rooms are open to males it increases the risk.

@DomesticatedZombie

Hm. Wonder what the figures are comparing 'female sex offenders' with 'males who identify as women sex offenders'? That would be interesting to look into. If we had the data. But of course, nobody collects that because it might upset people*.

*- never mind the victims! It's the sex offenders' feelings that matter, of course.

Hmm, looks like covert cameras aren't equally likely to be placed by women

Also bearing in mind the vast majority (over 80%) iirc of people with paraphilias are male.

And another, this time in York!

extract

A CHARITY shop assistant who covertly filmed customers for his sexual gratification has been jailed.

For months voyeur Christopher Adam Robinson, 35, secretly put his mobile phone in the shop’s changing room where it could film others without them knowing, said Howard Shaw, prosecuting.

But a holidaying family ended his activities when he tried to film them.

They got his phone and handed it to police.

Officers found a catalogued library of voyeuristic films on it.

Robinson had given the videos names indicating what people were doing while they believed they were unobserved.

They also found 40 indecent images of children, said Mr Shaw.

Robinson had a previous conviction for having indecent pictures of children, including one of a 12-month-old baby being abused, for which he was given a community order.

“You only get one chance and you’ve had it,” the Recorder of York, Judge Sean Morris told him as he jailed Robinson for eight months at York Crown Court.

Robinson, of Town Street, Old Malton, pleaded guilty to seven charges of voyeurism and one of having indecent images of children.

He was jailed for eight months and made subject to a sexual harm prevention order and put on the sex offenders’ register, both for 10 years.

Mr Shaw said the family wanted to try on clothes in the North Yorkshire shop on July 29, 2019.

Robinson said he needed to “set up” the changing room and went briefly into it before letting people use it.

As they tried the clothes on, they spotted the phone half hidden behind curtains and realised they were being filmed.

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19497470.voyeur-secretly-filmed-shop-customers-changing-room-jailed/