Oliver Dowden says woke ideology is a form of decadence

[RoyalCorgi]

The usual suspects on Twitter are throwing their toys out of the pram. But he's not wrong, is he?

www.itv.com/news/2022-02-14/woke-ideology-a-dangerous-form-of-decadence-tory-party-chair-says

Luxury beliefs, innit

Ah yes. Posh dickhead who loves wading in to the Tories' hard right culture wars, but if he doesn't like trans people he must be a hero, eh?

Are we going to have to go back to explaining why lime it or not we will at some point end up agreeing with people that on other things we disagree.

No sense making yourselves look ridiculous telling people grass is purple because Donald trump said it was green.

They very much are luxury beliefs. Girls in Kenya cannot identify out of having to leave school when puberty hots.

Women in.el Salvador prisons for miscarriages cant just say they re a man and be released.

Only those who have the time amd money and access to Internet to email head office about a lack of pronouns have the luxury if even thinking about it.

It is a luxury belief though isn’t it. I doubt very much women in Afghanistan are sat there worrying about being misgendered or saying that being called he instead of she is literal violence

It’s stopped clock thing isn’t it - Dowden is an intellectual lightweight who’d lose an argument with a sponge but he’s not wrong that men no matter how they present, are not women

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

This is connecting with voters because there is a recognition of the injustice this is making. And that is always a good way for someone to spread their wider political agenda.

So no, he isn't incorrect...

What do you think wreath about woke beliefs?
Make the case for them, in theory and in practice - I'd like to know if I'm missing something

@1Week

Luxury beliefs, innit

Yep.

I donate to a school in east Africa. I specifically requested that my money be used to sponsor a girl at secondary level, as it was painfully obvious that while the girls had a fair shot a primary education, at secondary level their numbers went off a cliff.

This is not because of how they identify. This is because none of them has a penis.

Radio 4's series The Hackers makes the same point, including an episode on the way troll farms have infiltrated social justice movements like BLM and the LGBTQ+ to promote more divisive narratives through social media, even boosting the Karen meme. They do this, the programme says, to distract the West from serious global powerplay.

Posh dickhead who loves wading in to the Tories' hard right culture wars, but if he doesn't like trans people he must be a hero, eh?

Nobody said he was a hero. I said that he wasn't wrong.

Here's a challenge for you and your fellow trans activists zealots: do you think you could manage to write a single sentence that doesn't have a lie in it?

This was his speech to the anti abortion, pro voter suppression group, yes?

And you're still claiming to be fighting for women's rights. Hilarious.

That's very interesting IvyTwine. I'm not a bit surprised.

Divide and rule isn't a new concept.

Would you care to say where he is wring in relation to trans ideology being a luxury believe or will you continue to try ajd discredit him with things we arent talking about.

Bear in mind that even pink news have slipped up with their alignments. What with praising Iran for its trans rights whilst ignoring the fact tat anyone gay is forced to become teans or killed ir imprisoned.

Or is the purity thing merely fir those who don't believw in gender ?

I am enjoying the decadence of a luxury right now. Mine is the walnut bread from the in-store bakery at Sainsbury’s. I suspect Mr Dowden has plenty of luxuries and doesn’t think much about if he has more than his share.
Surely the better argument is the impact on others?

And you're still claiming to be fighting for women's rights. Hilarious.

Indeed we are. And most of us are ready to go to prison to it. We will fight to the death to protect our vulnerable sisters, daughters and mothers from this pernicious ideology, regardless of whether some misogynistic prick regards it as hilarious.

@1Week

That's very interesting IvyTwine. I'm not a bit surprised. Divide and rule isn't a new concept.

Yes, the episode 'End User' is very good on this, and available on iplayer: it's only 15 minutes and I wish they'd gone into more depth.

@CorrBlimeyGG

This was his speech to the anti abortion, pro voter suppression group, yes?

And you're still claiming to be fighting for women's rights. Hilarious.

Of course. Because trans people are the only threat to women's rights; such a terrible threat that those who want to 'defend women's rights' will happily call for armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans, and will cosy up to anti-abortionists and male supremacists worldwide because waa, trans people!

@1Week

What do you think wreath about woke beliefs? Make the case for them, in theory and in practice - I'd like to know if I'm missing something

Beliefs labelled 'woke' are generally beliefs that straight white men are not inherently superior to everyone else. Which upsets some straight white men (and some other straight people, or white people, or sheltered/comfortably off people) to the point that they have to believe that anyone concerned about economic, racial or social justice really wants to kill them...

Are we doing this Wreath, the whole guilt by association thing?
I wouldn't have thought TRA's have a leg to stand on in that case.
Do you want a list of vocal TRA allies who have later been found to be- oh, let's say - sex offenders, rather than those who talk to right wingers?

I'm just listening to the radio where David Nutt is saying cannabis was made illegal in the USA to provide the law enforcement agency set up to deal with alcohol prohibition with something new to justify their employment/salary/status when alcohol was legalised. There are obvious parallels with certain organisations and teenagers / student activists today, when the rights struggles of the 20th century have been largely won.

@CorrBlimeyGG

This was his speech to the anti abortion, pro voter suppression group, yes?

And you're still claiming to be fighting for women's rights. Hilarious.

My thoughts exactly. Cheering an anti-abortion, anti-democracy Koch funded alt-right foundation. Feminism apparently.

I think he’s got a very good point!

Whataboutery at its finest here

I’m not interested in what TW have to say about abortion because like every other man, they’ll never have to face that choice.

@IvyTwines

Radio 4's series The Hackers makes the same point, including an episode on the way troll farms have infiltrated social justice movements like BLM and the LGBTQ+ to promote more divisive narratives through social media, even boosting the Karen meme. They do this, the programme says, to distract the West from serious global powerplay.

Interesting, thank you! Will listen.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the more goady posters on MN are actually paid by somebody. Or just even gullible people who've fallen victim to propoganda pumped out by bad actors creating and stirring discord and misinformation in order to destabilise society.

Last week Joshua Frank, a middle aged white male website editor, tweeted "you would not believe the number of anti-trans pieces submitted to Counterpunch from self-proclaimed Leftists. Most from older, white men and women, who of course claim to be defending feminism. Appalling shit"

So that's an admission that a white male gatekeeper is silencing numerous left-wing feminists and voices who try to approach what was once 'their' side's publications to discuss threats to women's rights. And in a week where Adele saying she loves being a woman is branded 'transphobic', that word used by Frank has pretty much lost all meaning now.

It's rainy out, so I've been stepping over a lot of muddy puddles - it's good to get in the habit!

Thanks for the tip off re troll farms- I do actually think this sort of thing is what's stifling real engagement and people aren't learning how to analyse what's been said (without ad hom stuff) - in general, not related to this necessarily - I don't know who Oliver Dowden is.