Oliver Dowden says woke ideology is a form of decadence

[RoyalCorgi]

The usual suspects on Twitter are throwing their toys out of the pram. But he's not wrong, is he?

www.itv.com/news/2022-02-14/woke-ideology-a-dangerous-form-of-decadence-tory-party-chair-says

"those who want to 'defend women's rights' will happily call for armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans"

And when/where exactly did that happen?

Ah more deliberate misrepresentation

Here we are in the 21st century with people insisting be penised men with beards are women cos feelings and that women not wanting said men in their private spaces are the ones in the wrong 🤪

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Whataboutery at its finest here

I’m not interested in what TW have to say about abortion because like every other man, they’ll never have to face that choice.

Well obviously what they say about abortion is neither here nor there. It's the bankrolling they do that is the point. The very effective funding of anti-choice organisations that is seeing abortion made more or less inaccessible to the average American woman.

@CorrBlimeyGG

This was his speech to the anti abortion, pro voter suppression group, yes?

And you're still claiming to be fighting for women's rights. Hilarious.

Can we locate the one person anywhere on the planet that could be regarded as a pure enough source for female people to be permitted to have boundaries? We'll keep them in a glass case somewhere.

Get a grip for goodness sakes.

Of course. Because trans people are the only threat to women's rights; such a terrible threat that those who want to 'defend women's rights' will happily call for armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans, and will cosy up to anti-abortionists and male supremacists worldwide because waa, trans people!

Good grief. The plot really is lost now isn't it? We're just into totally random abuse.

In the early 20th century, many leading figures on the left supported eugenics. Article by Jonathan Freedland here, if anyone's interested:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/17/eugenics-skeleton-rattles-loudest-closet-left

Now imagine going back in time, knowing what we now know. If the good lefties were supporting eugenics, would opposing eugenics make one right-wing? Suppose a right-wing politician opposed eugenics? If one applauded that politician, would that make one right wing?

Obviously not. Yet the utterly fatuous argument being put forward by some posters is that if one agrees with an idea held by a right-wing person, then one must also be right-wing. This is a view that manages to combine being dangerous, evil and moronic all in one neat package. I was going to write "Quite an achievement" except that it's par for the course with our little trans activist chums. They lack both a basic level of intelligence and a moral compass.

Devotion to gender woo woo is Labour's biggest Achilles heel. If they keep on with the "be kind/let's have more light than heat but not too much light/be kind/you fascist" line, they will be sunk. Sunk by this shower of corrupt knobs currently in government.

Woke ideology is a form of left wing thought control for people who think they are clever.

Of course. Because trans people are the only threat to women's rights; such a terrible threat that those who want to 'defend women's rights' will happily call for armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans, and will cosy up to anti-abortionists and male supremacists worldwide because waa, trans people!

Gosh. I've been discussing this issue for years. This is the first time I've seen that we're calling for 'armed men to patrol women's toilets' .
At least, it makes a change from the bonkers old "mandatory genital checks" strawman that no one is calling for either.

Can I point out again that it was a government led by the evil Tories who legalised same sex marriage (with zero drama).

I'd better give Dave at the British Lefty Feminist Gun Nut Society a bell and let him know the membership emails haven't been getting through...

@TheGreatATuin

Of course. Because trans people are the only threat to women's rights; such a terrible threat that those who want to 'defend women's rights' will happily call for armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans, and will cosy up to anti-abortionists and male supremacists worldwide because waa, trans people!

Gosh. I've been discussing this issue for years. This is the first time I've seen that we're calling for 'armed men to patrol women's toilets' .
At least, it makes a change from the bonkers old "mandatory genital checks" strawman that no one is calling for either.

Quite.

When you have to make stuff up in order to have something to rant about it's all got a bit sad really.

It's not for example like there are years' worth of threads here explaining in detail what the issues actually are for females. But hey ho, it's trying hard to stop people discussing the OP. While demonstrating that decadence and lazy thinking and an inability or unwillingness to actually think yes, really seems to be playing a major part.

BoTH the far left and far right are a threat to women because authoritarianism is the issue at the heart of this, in which ideology seeks to control thought and crush descent.

So yes in being critical of the far left he is right. The problem is what his ultimate agenda is. If its to wrestle control of women from the left for the benefit of the right rather than the benefit of women themselves thats where he falls down.

But it still doesn't make him wrong in saying these type of leftist extreme policies and beliefs are harmful to society and are a luxury set of beliefs which doesn't reflect the life or priorities of most.

Neither does pro-life ideology for many of the same years either though.

Of course. Because trans people are the only threat to women's rights; such a terrible threat that those who want to 'defend women's rights' will happily call for armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans, and will cosy up to anti-abortionists and male supremacists worldwide because waa, trans people!

U okay, hun?

Imagine how many armed men you would need patrolling womens loos

Who would patrol the gender neutral loos to check that only the gender neutrals were using them

Fucking bonkers thing to think then actually write. 🤣🤣🤣

In my mind there is a distinction between woke performance, poor diversity training and the kind of moodle quizes set by my uni and an expression that structural inequalities exist and matter. "Woke" can mean both of these and I think the Dowdens of this world are targetting both.
So I hate compelled speech but think children should be exposed to the idea that society is not always fair and may be systematically racist or indeed sexist
In fact this is my new soap box I see many common elements in CRT (actual CRT not that performed by the di Angelos of this world) and gender critical feminism. - Both make people uncomfortable because they force them to face up to their priviledge

@DomesticatedZombie

Of course. Because trans people are the only threat to women's rights; such a terrible threat that those who want to 'defend women's rights' will happily call for armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans, and will cosy up to anti-abortionists and male supremacists worldwide because waa, trans people!

U okay, hun?

Good old former MNer PP of course www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4150824-That-inviting-armed-men-into-women-s-spaces-to-defend-us-is-a-batshit-idea

I dislike Oliver Dowden because I thought he was a rubbish Culture Secretary (although compared to Nadine Dorries...) but I agree with him here. How do you decolonise mathematics by the way? Rename Pythagoras triangle? Remove some of the buttons on a calculator?

such a terrible threat that those who want to 'defend women's rights' will happily call for armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans,

BULLSHIT ALERT!

Posie Parker did not say this on her show - it was a clip taken out of context (which was obvious because the clip circulating on Twitter was very short and very cut).

Unless you are talking about someone else in which case, I'm all ears.

As for Dowden, well I do think that a lot of gender ideology is luxury belief.

Firstly because who has got the time to navel gaze about what men and women are, ultimately we all know and most people have got more important things to worry about.

Secondly, because there are so many women out there who cannot identify out of their oppression and its really offensive to suggest you can.

Thirdly, the likes of Ellie Mae O'Hagan, Lisa Nandy and their ilk show their privilege when it comes to 'trans rights'. They know the chance of them being locked up in a prison cell with a male is nigh on zero. They clearly don't think they need to worry about ever being in a women's refuge, but worse than that they are apparently that privileged that they don't even have the capacity for empathy for traumatised women in a refuge who might not want to be in the presence of a male.

For them the main priority is appearing 'woke', and that is a luxury that many just don't have.

@Hasselhoffsheadband

As for Dowden, well I do think that a lot of gender ideology is luxury belief.

Firstly because who has got the time to navel gaze about what men and women are, ultimately we all know and most people have got more important things to worry about.

Secondly, because there are so many women out there who cannot identify out of their oppression and its really offensive to suggest you can.

Thirdly, the likes of Ellie Mae O'Hagan, Lisa Nandy and their ilk show their privilege when it comes to 'trans rights'. They know the chance of them being locked up in a prison cell with a male is nigh on zero. They clearly don't think they need to worry about ever being in a women's refuge, but worse than that they are apparently that privileged that they don't even have the capacity for empathy for traumatised women in a refuge who might not want to be in the presence of a male.

For them the main priority is appearing 'woke', and that is a luxury that many just don't have.

Quiet agree. It's a first world issue and I believe most who follow it are entitled prats/spoilt brats.

Former MNer? you are a current MNer? Are you implying everyone on MN shares the same views?

@Wreath21

Ah yes. Posh dickhead who loves wading in to the Tories' hard right culture wars, but if he doesn't like trans people he must be a hero, eh?

Well, personally I am also against the stupidity, not to mention outright racism, of trying to decolonize mathematics.

Whether or not he's posh seems pretty irrelevant.

@SwissBall

I dislike Oliver Dowden because I thought he was a rubbish Culture Secretary (although compared to Nadine Dorries...) but I agree with him here. How do you decolonise mathematics by the way? Rename Pythagoras triangle? Remove some of the buttons on a calculator?

Basically, kids who aren't white don't need to learn math.