Oliver Dowden says woke ideology is a form of decadence

[RoyalCorgi]

The usual suspects on Twitter are throwing their toys out of the pram. But he's not wrong, is he?

www.itv.com/news/2022-02-14/woke-ideology-a-dangerous-form-of-decadence-tory-party-chair-says

@Wreath21

Ah yes. Posh dickhead who loves wading in to the Tories' hard right culture wars, but if he doesn't like trans people he must be a hero, eh?

He’s no hero of mine, but he’s got a point here.

I’m sure me and Hitler would agree that the grass is green.

“Of course. Because trans people are the only threat to women's rights; such a terrible threat that those who want to 'defend women's rights' will happily call for armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans, and will cosy up to anti-abortionists and male supremacists worldwide because waa, trans people!“

Have you got receipts for this complete shite about toilets?

And TRAs who tell us off for keeping bad company are throwing stones in glass houses. The Challenors, anyone?

And doesn’t queer theory have it’s roots in the work of peodophile rapist Michel Foucault?

@DomesticatedZombie

Former MNer? you are a current MNer? Are you implying everyone on MN shares the same views?

No, because they clearly don't. SImply that PP used to post on MN. To be fair, for all I know, she may still post on here under a different name.

@Wreath21 when are you going to provide the evidence that Posie Parker called for 'armed men to patrol women's toilets checking for anyone who looks like them might be trans'.

And an out of context clip where she doesn't actually say what you have alleged, doesn't count.

@TheMarzipanDildo

And TRAs who tell us off for keeping bad company are throwing stones in glass houses. The Challenors, anyone?

I know! No one ever mentions the Challenors do they? Do the Challenors mean that we should assume that all trans people have the same views as David Challenor?

What about Peter Tatchell, who can't seem to stop himself talking about minors and sex? He's a trans rights activitist. Do we assume that all trans people think that adults having sex with pre pubescent kids is OK 'if the child is not damaged by it' or whatever he said?

@TheMarzipanDildo

And doesn’t queer theory have it’s roots in the work of peodophile rapist Michel Foucault?

It does, yes. Some 'feminist' views - like sex being immutable - are shared by rightwing or conservative people. This is used as a stick to beat women with and try to shame left wing people.

The theories of genderism are rooted in the ideas of:

John Money

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money#Controversies

Michel Foucault

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault#Views_on_underage_sex_and_pedophilia

Somehow 'being rightwing' doesn't seem to me to be in quite the same territory.

Which side was cosying up to Crispin Blunt again? Remove the forest of beams from your own eye before trying to criticise the speck of dust in mine.

Can someone please explain the decolonising maths thing?

thewire.in/history/to-decolonise-maths-stand-up-to-its-false-history

Essentially queering, false western history, western bad white middle class other words too bad etc etc etc

CS Lewis took the mickey out of what he perceived as people getting highly silly with modernising maths with Alice in Wonderland. The quarternion equations that won't work because the three parts aren't talking to the fourth part of time, and so go round and round, (but if they can stuff the third part, the dormouse in the teapot, then the other two can make a sensible and workable equation and stop going endlessly round and round the table) and the maths warping out of a base of ten with things being large or small without sense or warning.

Which side was cosying up to Crispin Blunt again? Remove the forest of beams from your own eye before trying to criticise the speck of dust in mine.

Well, quite.

I'd say it's pretty obvious that Stonewall or Mermaids, or the organisations behind them, have people on their payroll who post on here. BlueberryCheezcake, Shinzoku, and old JAPAB, if anyone remembers him.

I do. But watch it, it's like saying Candyman.

It’s funny to watch the hyperbole / escalation / ad hominem / guilt by association of the TRA side of the argument. They have to resort to this to try to justify opposition to women’s reasonable voices / legitimate concerns, or to our simple ‘no - we do not consent.’ It’s the desperation of the death throes of this movement - the more people become aware of this it’s becoming increasingly obvious how little support their actually is. Posie’s speakers corners are going to be instrumental - where people can literally see this for what it is with their own eyes - men shouting over women, getting in their space. And yes, he’s right on this. Luxury beliefs are exactly it - moral ‘purity’ is a new social currency that not many can afford as many of us are affected by, not insulated from issues on the ground. Purity is also a relative position (holier than thou), unlike morality which can be discussed with nuance. So escalation is the only option for these people - the purity spiral - which is why the left, sadly is eating itself and leaving sensible moderate people who think for themselves and refuse to engage in this ridiculous game by the wayside. Shout out to the days when people used to just pretend not to have a telly to seem interesting / virtuous.

I was reading an article recently on the death of nuance, where you just have to stick to your position and will not see others’ points of view. It seems as if being persuaded is just wrong . I suppose those #nodebate advocates would agree.

I have been working in one of the (officially!) worst 100 schools in the country. There are no trans kids. Plenty of very, very disadvantaged kids, but they are not a “sexy” issue and certainly don’t get support groups, charities, toilet mafia etc etc throwing £££££ at them.

Exactly - they aren’t a fashionable cause because acknowledgement of that would require facing an actual problem requiring real solutions / actions and that’s far too much bother. Why bother to go to that trouble when you can just hold up a rainbow flag and display your credentials for all to see? This is not about real problems / injustices. It’s about ego. Womens rights never has been and never will be a fashionable cause because it suits men both left and right to keep us where we are.

I am very gender critical but really, really don't like where this movement is going. I look around and see I'm standing with the white supremacist, anti abortion, anti immigrants. Frankly, if it's all or nothing and I have to pick a side in the stoked up culture wars, I'd rather stand with the TWAW lot because more of their beliefs aline with mine. I won't keep quite though and will continue to argue my case.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I do. But watch it, it's like saying Candyman.

@Kendodd

I am very gender critical but really, really don't like where this movement is going. I look around and see I'm standing with the white supremacist, anti abortion, anti immigrants. Frankly, if it's all or nothing and I have to pick a side in the stoked up culture wars, I'd rather stand with the TWAW lot because more of their beliefs aline with mine. I won't keep quite though and will continue to argue my case.

In what situation are you going to have to 'pick a side'? Can you not envision disagreeing with some people on some issues while agreeing with them on others? Tribalism can be a dangerous thing. It encourages over simplistic thinking and 'othering'.

Frankly, if it's all or nothing and I have to pick a side in the stoked up culture wars

Why do you? Follow your own path.

In what situation are you going to have to 'pick a side'?

In the polling station.

That's fair enough. It's your vote to do what you feel is best, across the board.

Aye, fine, but I am not sure even that shakes down to a stark 'TWAW' v 'GC'.

The candidates and parties will have their own views.

I also am not sure we have 'white supremacists' in the UK so much. At least, not in the major political parties. Actually one could argue 'white supremacist, anti abortion, anti immigrants' are all more relevant to US based party positions, and the subjects here in the UK are all more complex/nuanced than those pithy two-word positions would suggest.