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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Husband transitioning help!

462 replies

LifeIsAGameYouCannotWin · 10/02/2022 12:57

Hi all, name change for this. DH has been talking about transitioning for many years now. I was pretty much in denial the whole time, thinking maybe he's a cross dresser, etc. Anyway I'm now realizing that he is serious. We have very good relationships, he's fully aware of how it affects me and our child. He loves me very much but as much as I want this to go away I can't accept his sacrifice of not transitioning and not being himself. He will eventually transition but I guess it's best done when he's still young. Anyway I'm all over the place and don't know how to navigate this long journey. I said I will fully support him but I don't think I will stay with him, we'll see I might who knows. Is there anyone hear who can talk to me about it? I'm afraid of what the future holds for us, I'm worrying about my kid, is he going to be bullied? Is this going to traumatize him? What to do?

OP posts:
SoItWas · 10/02/2022 22:01

**specifically do a google image search, if you're brave enough

EeeICouldRipATissue · 10/02/2022 22:04

I think we can glean what you're trying to say without you suggesting we need to start Google image searching for stuff Hmm

ScrollingLeaves · 10/02/2022 22:07

“Doubletoilandtrouble

Anorexia is a DIY menstruation /puberty/ breast-reducer

Please don’t simply any medical condition like this. Anorexia (and all forms of eating disorders) are a complex interplay between social factors and (we believe) a predisposition for it. It is a complex disease where they symptoms (the disordered eating) only can be treated by treating the underlying causes. However, and this is very important, if the patient is too far gone as in too low weight, they need to be taken back to a minimum weight before treatment can start.

It is an illness, it destroys lives and it needs to be treated so the sufferers can move on and live a normal life.“

Yes, of course it is an illness that needs treating. Of course it is deadly serious and destroys lives. There are girls who die because of it.

It also has the effect of stopping menstruation and giving the impression that a teenage girl or woman is like a child. There is also a link with body dysphoria, and with autism in some cases.

SoItWas · 10/02/2022 22:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

SoItWas · 10/02/2022 22:15

MNHQ, surely you meant to delete my other comment? Confused

DrSbaitso · 10/02/2022 22:16

Maybe Im being a bit dim here but I dont understand what you're trying to say.

Just what I ask. If the transitioned person doesn't see themselves as mother, what do they mean when they ask people to refer to them as mother?

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse. I'm reading all your posts with great interest, as you have a very important insight and I'm grateful to you for sharing. But it's this kind of doublethink that so often goes along with this debate that I think is confusing both of us.

So much of the confusion and clashing could, I think, be helped if we didn't try to insist that transwomen are women - no different in any significant way to an actual female bodied person - but are, well, transwomen. And deserving of respect and safety for that, but a different being to a female person.

lottiegarbanzo · 10/02/2022 22:27

My only contribution is to say that if you're going to break up, I think the sooner the better, for the sake of the child.

Children accept things that happen when they're very young as 'just the way things are'. It's too early for them to have any sense of their own involvement. It quickly becomes all or most of what they've always known. They quickly adapt to their new stability as their normal.

Whereas older children and teens feel far more involved, so a part of the problem, as well as having to find their own solution. That's hard.

SoItWas · 10/02/2022 22:31

To rephrase my deleted post, if you don't want to google stuff suggested on mumsnet, don't. If you do, do?

SoItWas · 10/02/2022 22:33

lottiegarbanzo that's a good point.

DaisyWaldron · 10/02/2022 22:45

@DrSbaitso

no transexual I know thinks he's become the birth mother

Then what is meant by "mother"?

Plenty of mothers haven't given birth. Adoptive mothers, the non-birthing mum in a same-sex couple, some stepmothers. I have two mothers. One of them have birth to me, but the other is just as much my mum.
TinselAngel · 10/02/2022 22:51

Plenty of mothers haven't given birth. Adoptive mothers, the non-birthing mum in a same-sex couple, some stepmothers. I have two mothers. One of them have birth to me, but the other is just as much my mum.

Yes but they're all female.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/02/2022 23:12

“TinselAngel

“ Plenty of mothers haven't given birth. Adoptive mothers, the non-birthing mum in a same-sex couple, some stepmothers. I have two mothers. One of them have birth to me, but the other is just as much my mum.

“Yes but they're all female“

Yes. And they weren’t in fact the child’s biological father, which would be the case in this context.

nolongersurprised · 10/02/2022 23:15

strugglingwife

It’s always good to get a number of perspectives on what is clearly a complex relationship issue. I was struck by your post where you said that you’d been suicidal at one point. Which is obviously a hige huge deal, especially with children to look after.

You don’t need to answer, but your suicidality due to the shock of your husband transitioning? Or did it occur while you were processing your thoughts and emotions about finding a way to stay in the relationship?

bishophaha · 10/02/2022 23:21

[quote LifeIsAGameYouCannotWin]@2Rebecca all valid questions and I don't know! No he says he wants to be a woman. That he always felt like one. I don't know what it feels like to wanting to be a certain gender as I never had these feelings. I think people who don't have issues with their gender identity don't know what it feels like and try to answer more philosophical questions like what it means to be a woman or a man... he says he wants to look more feminine more like a woman and others looking at him as a woman. In my mind in this world it's easier to be a man. I guess there were issues in his childhood that led him not wanting to be a man.[/quote]
Why does he think being feminine has anything to do with being a woman?
Has he not met any men who have feminine traits? Any women who aren't 100% feminine?
The two aren't interchangeable.
He basically just wants to change his appearance like loads of other people on social media - and have people 'read' him as the opposite sex. Why?
He must have worked out he can't actually know what 'being a woman' feels like, and never can. No-one knows what it actually feels like to be a physically different body than they are unless they fake it.

RedToothBrush · 10/02/2022 23:25

The thing is that rarely is the identity of the child thought about in this.

Fuck the adult involved. This has repercussions that go beyond 'being nice'. Its not nice for the kids.

Basically biology comes into play here.

Humans can only be made by a male and a female. And they will produce either a male or a female.

Our identities are not just about ourselves as individuals who are disconnected to everyone else.

We understand ourselves on the basis of family too. So who your mother and father are matters - even if you fucking hate their guts or even if you were adopted as a child. Its still relevant to how we see ourselves.

If you have a child who is male who has a father who transitions it will be natural for them to wonder why, and to think 'is this genetic?' or 'did I have some kind of influence?' cos this is human nature to think.

You can tell someone they are now your mother, but they fucking know they aren't. Indeed the whole thing of telling a child they no longer have a father but have another mother is precisely the issue here. Because only females give birth and they can only get pregnant with the aid of a male - cos thats how genetics work.

Attempts to gaslight, miss the point here about how a child will process their own identity at some stage. You can not merely pretend that you have a mother who was a sperm donor - because biology.

The maleness of the father doesn't disappear because of a proclaimation of gender identity.

We KNOW that people who have been adopted can go through identity crisis of their own because this matters. Its the whole understanding of self identity being relational as part of a group (father/son, as a family unit, order of birth, mother/son etc). These are fundamentals that matter.

In this notion of 'being kind' a child is gaslight that this doesn't matter. When everything we know about relational identity means this absoluetely does matter. All you do, when you tell a child they must call their father their mother is set them up for a point in the future where this comes to a head and they have to deal with it - and they are more likely to have to do this alone and without support if everyone around them and all these organisation are effectively telling them they aren't allowed to or they must put their parent before themselves.

I mean what fucking parent does that? Put their own needs before their child's?

If you want to 'live life as a woman', crack on if you must. But for the love of god don't force it on your kids and your partner by saying they must now only ever refer to you as female and must condition yourself to think they are a actually a woman. Kids need to retain the ability to make a difference between Mum and their biology father - they are NOT the same. Kids should have the RIGHT to call their father Dad, even if Daddy hates it. Cos its not all about Dad's feelings is it? Its also about the identity of a child too.

What gets me, is how the children are NEVER thought of. Never centred. Instead they have to play second fiddle to someone elses identity - or if its a mental illness, have to put that first forever.

There is no balance to this - no real thought as to the mental impact of this long term. And this can't be studied because of political correctness and these children cant speak up because of their age / understanding at present and because of the stigma of 'being a bad person who has failed to be a ally' if they do.

The whole thing is horrific. I'm sorry but it is and we should be making more of a point about the impact of this because it matters to minors who are innocent bystanders to it all.

RedToothBrush · 10/02/2022 23:25

Shame on those who lecture on this and never think of the children involved.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 10/02/2022 23:29

Why does he think being feminine has anything to do with being a woman?
I don't read what you quoted as saying thinks feminine is anything to do with being a woman?
Just more like if you are trans you are obviously likely to want to present outwardly the same as you do inside.
More to match up, so to speak.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 10/02/2022 23:30

Shame on those who lecture on this and never think of the children involved
Where has anyone done that?

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 10/02/2022 23:30

OP, please advise your husband to see a therapist or counsellor as a matter of urgency. But it has to be a good independent professional, not someone who will mindlessly 'affirm' his wish to transition without considering the causes of his distress.

Child sexual abuse often makes the victim hate their own body, or feel alienated from it. It's natural that a male victim may wish himself female, to escape the body that 'attracted' the abuser's attention.

Your DH has been anxious and depressed for a long time. He needs a chance, and wise guidance, to work through the reasons for his wish to change his gender. With the right help he could learn to love and accept himself as he is.

MN's wise and experienced transwidows will be able to offer helpful advice on this.

I wish you both and your DC the best of luck.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 10/02/2022 23:33

MN's wise and experienced transwidows will be able to offer helpful advice on this

Yes, and if you actually read the thread the link has already been given several times, Tinsel has commented too, OP has taken on board but says she wants other opinions as well as is open minded to staying and hasn't decided yet.

TinselAngel · 10/02/2022 23:38

@EeeICouldRipATissue

MN's wise and experienced transwidows will be able to offer helpful advice on this

Yes, and if you actually read the thread the link has already been given several times, Tinsel has commented too, OP has taken on board but says she wants other opinions as well as is open minded to staying and hasn't decided yet.

I don't think the OP has responded to any of my comments.

This is an odd thread with nobody really appearing to listen to anybody else.

RedToothBrush · 10/02/2022 23:38

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Shame on those who lecture on this and never think of the children involved Where has anyone done that?
The very second they start saying that the dad is now 'mum' if you actually bothered to read my point.
EeeICouldRipATissue · 10/02/2022 23:38

Humans can only be made by a male and a female
Has anyone said different?! Confused

And they will produce either a male or a female
Yes, but you can't stop them growing up to be trans.
They either are or they aren't.

RedToothBrush · 10/02/2022 23:44

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Humans can only be made by a male and a female Has anyone said different?! Confused

And they will produce either a male or a female
Yes, but you can't stop them growing up to be trans.
They either are or they aren't.

Yes. They have said husband is now a woman.

No. Impossible.

They want to be 'treated like a woman' but they can never 'be' a woman if if their documents say to the contrary.

Plastic surgery does not change your sex.

I am sick of the gaslighting and dodging on this.

Its harmful. Its harming people to carry on with this in the name of 'being kind'.

But who fucking cares about the trail of destruction it leaves in its wake. Its just 'bigots'. Except its not is it? Its the wreckage of a family.

Be kind my arse. No one cares about anyone else because they aren't brave and stunning enough. They just hide in the shadows of it.

TinselAngel · 10/02/2022 23:54

It's very odd when you're a recognised (by a parliamentary select committee!) authority on something, but nobody on a thread wants to listen to you about your actual area of expertise.