Male midwife facing 29 charges of misconduct,

[TheLoneRager]

NMC hearing started today, expected to last four days, of a senior male midwife accused of, among other things, having taken pictures of two women having caesarian sections without their permission and also filmed himself performing a sex act in a hospital toilet.
He faces 29 misconduct charges.

Will be watching this case this week.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10439033/Bullying-male-midwife-alleged-taken-pictures-two-women-having-Caesarean-sections.html

@MaryAndHerNet

For all the NAMALT types in here.. You need to add a few extra letters to that.

Not All Men Are Like That... But All Men Are Potentially That So Women Need To Minimise Their Risk Of Harm.

NAMALTBAMAPTSWNTMTROH

But if all men are potentially dangerous, then we, women, should only be treated by women.

I personally don’t believe the idea that MW are different because we are vulnerable at the time of birth and we’ve been building a relationship with thé MW.
There many other times when we are vulnerable. From an internal scan to treatment for potential cervical cancer to check ups etc etc. And that’s just the ones involved with gyne stuff.

I don’t think we can have a no male MW but I’m happy with a male OB or gynaecologist for example. (Or someone in ICU, ED etc…. to be honest).
For me, it’s either, I consider all make to be potentially a danger so no male should be doing any gyne stuff (so MW, sonographers, gynaecologist, OB et…).
Or we consider that actually most men are OK and enough is done to protect women from the bad apples and men are OK in ALL of those disciplines.

Fwiw I think that the clear pleasure some men find when ‘treating women’ si all down the patriarchy and misogyny. The less assault of women is tolerated in the wider society, the less problem women will have during birth etc… The issue isn’t male MW imo. It’s the overall attitude of society towards women and the fact men get away with it. It just so happen that when giving birth some of those behaviours are more visible (or don’t feel as normal than just as unacceptable behaviours that we see on a daily basis iyswim)

I wonder if maybe part of the issue is that women find it harder to make complaints about male HCPs so issues aren't flagged as quickly as they might be with a female.

Or they are instantly dismissed because you know hysterical women + system that protect men/consultant as being gods who can do no wrong…
Same with the police btw.

A reflection of how our society sees women despite the whole ‘we are all equal now’ discourse.

I would be very interested to hear about

a) how female midwives/nurses feel when a woman requests female only care.

b) the experiences of women who have asked for female only care.

I've had 4 DCs, lots of smear tests. It's only in the last couple years i would say i would be 'brave' enough to ask for female medical staff only for intimate medical care. Previously i would have worried about being viewed or treated as a nuisance.

Threads like these help.
And getting older and more feisty.

I am sad for the younger me tbh.

What about all the other male midwife's who have worked hard to get where they need to be? You cannot tar all males with the same brush! There's good and bad in every proffesion.

I think the problem with a single sex service, is would that improve things for women? Or would that create a whole set of other issues where women's health provisioin gets even worse precisely because of sexism.

Would we have adequate representation (and actual voice) at board levels etc in terms of getting the right funding levels etc for example?

I think its an ideal that strike me as perhaps needing a 'be careful of what you wish for' and a question of whether it would be a solution to institutional level sexism within healthcare. I very much have my doubts.

I am sad for the younger me tbh

In my 20's and 30's I found it so much harder to question professionals, whereas now in my 50's I couldn't give a toss who I offend.

However, I do remember going for a hospital appointment, because I had a poorly ear that the GP couldn't get to the bottom of. The very first thing the doctor asked me to do was strip to the waist! For an ear problem! I was only in my 20's then, but I declined and left immediately.

When I needed an internal exam when pregnant (aged 27), the old doctor commented on how pretty my pants were - that's not right, is it?

When I had a miscarriage, the male doctor spent so long fiddling about inside me, that the female nurse barked at him that he needed to stop and that was enough now.

All a long time ago, and I never think about it, until I read something like this.

I never have a male do smear or breast screening. If I turned up on the day and the female nurse was sick, I would leave and rearrange the appointment.

@MananaTomorrow

I wonder if maybe part of the issue is that women find it harder to make complaints about male HCPs so issues aren't flagged as quickly as they might be with a female.

Or they are instantly dismissed because you know hysterical women + system that protect men/consultant as being gods who can do no wrong…
Same with the police btw.

A reflection of how our society sees women despite the whole ‘we are all equal now’ discourse.

Yes indeed.

@draramallama

I had a female sonographer who shoved me, without warning, so hard that I nearly fell off the bed. When I said it hurt she rolled her eyes and muttered something about the baby’s position while continuing to push and shove. My stomach was sore for days.

So because the NHS allows abusive female HCPs to remain in post that reassures you there would be appropriate safeguards against abusive male HCPs?

I'm sorry she assaulted you. I hope you felt able to complain.

Absolutely not. I’m just demonstrating that my experience was the opposite of a PP. I think there should be more safeguards in place full stop. Obviously we can’t ban all female and male health care workers, so maybe we should concentrate on ensuring women are treated well overall?

If you read the rest of my post, I mentioned a few male health care professionals who were fantastic and I saw a good many female midwives. Some were lovely, some should never be around a vulnerable person again. The issue goes beyond sex.

I'm not sure a public bashing of male midwives is acceptable really. I had two male midwives involved in my care, one who ran the antenatal day unit where I was attending weekly from 20 weeks - he was fab and did so much to make sure I got the right appointments for induction etc. And then the midwive who delivered DD was male. It never even crossed my mind to question his intentions, he was caring, calm and professional. As I would expect from any midwive. And he handled it bloody well when I bled alot after. Don't brand all male midwives bad because of a few

Do male midwives need a chaperone when performing internal exams on women in labour?

And people wonder why mums-to-be want female midwives!

MrBlobby it’s not too late to report that.

@MarbleQueen

I wonder how many women don’t feel they can decline a male midwife.

I started a thread about the lack of consent with Nhs students and it’s quite clear from the replies that some medical people have no regard at all for consent.

This.

I've had it with smear tests - made to feel like I can't object.

I had female MW - but last pg we had serious cause to complain - had proof she done wrong not once but twice - had outside group support and DH before felt we could. It was supposedly all sorted according to managment - we had such poor care it put us at unnecessary risk.

DSis had same with her MW - complained - again it was a serious with problem with evidence there was a problem with care- MW refused to see her and she got next to no MW care during pg.

It's rare any of my family complain and upshot was we recieved much worse care because we got that desperate.

With DN new consultants insisted complaints were made about previous treatment - if someone had looked at done x-ray would have seen 18 months of painful treatment was never going to work and the operation could have done earlier with fewer risks. Notes went missing as soon as complaint was made.

We heard many similar stories.

If you make it so people feel they can't object when they do raise concerns they are dimissied, minimised or blamed then it hardly surpring bad practise flourishes.

I don't entirely balme the staff though as if they felt better supported by management maybe they'd close ranks less and actually help get rid of problem HCP. So persoanlly I feel it a wider issue than male HCP.

Gross. He should be struck off.

This thread is a depressing read. A few years ago my DH joked that he didn't trust men in any OBGYN role because it's "weird and creepy" and there's "something off" about a man who wants to do that job. I got annoyed at him and said these men aren't going through years of training just to see undressed women - that's the opposite of opportunistic.

These stats are not good though, maybe he was on to something. The men in these anecdotes should be nowhere near women in the most vulnerable moments of their lives.

@whatfreshheck I am sure your husband is lovely but my male doctors I have been dismissed and nit listened to. When I am at my most vulnerable in labour I want someone who I feel supports me. A doctor/paramedic is very different role from the midwife who if NHS provides proper midwifery care is there for me at appointments listening to my concerns, worries and fears. There supporting me through many hours of labour. It is a very different role.

I will never get over the male obs doctor who on day 2 of the first nation lockdown walked into the cubical where I was crying alone thinking I was having a miscarriage and cheerily told me 'how are you today lovely weather, you all okay today'. Unsurprisingly I told him I was not f-ing okay I was alone with a suspected miscarriage.

I will happily see a male doctor for many things but I feel more at ease with a woman for midwifery care.

@Laiste

I would be very interested to hear about

a) how female midwives/nurses feel when a woman requests female only care.

b) the experiences of women who have asked for female only care.

I've had 4 DCs, lots of smear tests. It's only in the last couple years i would say i would be 'brave' enough to ask for female medical staff only for intimate medical care. Previously i would have worried about being viewed or treated as a nuisance.

Threads like these help.
And getting older and more feisty.

I am sad for the younger me tbh.

I’m a female HCP & when women request female staff I don’t even think about it. I suppose that’s because I’m female and actually quite a lot of women request this so it’s very much NOT unusual.

The only time it has worried me was when the woman I was caring for needed a forceps delivery & the on call team were all male save the very Jnr Reg. The woman (& her husband) were insistent that the female dr perform the procedure. She was not qualified and she knew it, we all knew it. The male consultant talked her thru it on the other side of a curtain via a mirror on the wall.

We (HCP) all supported her as obvs we are very experienced in assisting with these procedures. The medical team were in an impossible emergency situation.

I was sad that the baby was jeopardised but the woman’s wishes are always paramount.

I got annoyed at him and said these men aren't going through years of training just to see undressed women - that's the opposite of opportunistic

But they do. They really do. Men will literally do anything. A few years back there was a newspaper article about a body found in the women's loos some where. He'd crawled into a vent and obviously couldn't get out again. The article was written in such a way as to convey absolute ignorance over what a man would be doing inside a wall in the womens toilets.

Then there's the septic tank story.

And paramedics, drs, teachers , priests etc all have undergone lots of training or made lots if sacrifices in order to gain access.

Every women is going to have their own experience with male midwives/gynes/obs.

You can argue till you're blue in the face about personal experiences and anecdotes.

BUT

The bare statistics at the start of this thread are what have got it to the front page of MN today. Not stories. Facts.

Facts are what women all should be sitting up and paying attention to. What everyone should be sitting up and paying attention to.

Facts are not the same as 'fears'.

Despite the good start sadly this thread is slipping down into familiar ''but not MY husband'' and ''but good men matter more than all women'' territory.

So far, that's a 6% rate of men who should never have been let within a hundred miles of a pregnant woman.

Strictly speaking (other issues aside) it's the rate of men for whom there's been sufficient evidence for there to be professional and/or criminal proceedings.

There will be a higher number for whom there is not considered to be sufficient evidence but about whom there are concerns. They may well be passed from one trust to another or they will be in post.

There will be ones who are adored and against whom all evidence is discounted until such time as the number of reports is irresistible. And then there will be a history of complainants having to move jobs rather than the person in question.

I strongly believe that in any situation where hetero men deal with vulnerable women and children, a significant minority will offend.

The abuse in this case demonstrates that, along with many other examples in different situations.

These men will do anything to have access to vulnerable women and children- become priests, become midwives, work for oxfam abroad etc etc. They centre their whole life around access to abuse of vulnerable women and children.

So the question is why do these men do this? Why is the drive to abuse so strong in them? And how can we stop it?

And paramedics, drs, teachers , priests etc all have undergone lots of training or made lots if sacrifices in order to gain access.

Social workers too.

Every couple of years there is big scandal about horrific abuse in children’s homes. There is the usual enquiry and people pretending they don’t know how it could have happened.

Loads of jobs are for women only, and quite rightly. Midwifery should be one of them.

I like to think that I would be able to say no to a male midwife but being in labour is such a vulnerable time. It's unfair to put that on someone so vulnerable.

Thank you @AgathaMystery.

I wonder if most female medical staff are as genuinely accepting of requests as you? Do you get that impression?

Look until recent years i was very much a people pleaser and a worrier about What People Think. I know i'm not alone. I can think of 4 female friends off the top of my head who would want female HCPs but probably wouldn't be brave enough to ask. (I'll have to ask them next time i see them!)

I genuinely wonder just what percentage of women just don't feel 'able' to ask for female only.

How can we help this?
How many professionals (of either sex) would genuinely want to?

@RedToothBrush

I think the problem with a single sex service, is would that improve things for women? Or would that create a whole set of other issues where women's health provisioin gets even worse precisely because of sexism.

Would we have adequate representation (and actual voice) at board levels etc in terms of getting the right funding levels etc for example?

I think its an ideal that strike me as perhaps needing a 'be careful of what you wish for' and a question of whether it would be a solution to institutional level sexism within healthcare. I very much have my doubts.

If this is how you're thinking you need to prove that having male midwives has improved the care of women.

Can you do that?