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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Male midwife facing 29 charges of misconduct,

386 replies

TheLoneRager · 25/01/2022 21:46

NMC hearing started today, expected to last four days, of a senior male midwife accused of, among other things, having taken pictures of two women having caesarian sections without their permission and also filmed himself performing a sex act in a hospital toilet.
He faces 29 misconduct charges.

Will be watching this case this week.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10439033/Bullying-male-midwife-alleged-taken-pictures-two-women-having-Caesarean-sections.html

OP posts:
ManAlive24 · 26/01/2022 11:04

They are never not at it.

Gonnagetgoing · 26/01/2022 11:05

@MrBlobbyLivesNextDoor

I had a male midwife when my DC was born. He was lovely

Mine sat at the end of the room, at the bottom end of the bed, with his smart phone pointed between my legs, passing time away on his phone. I didn't even have a smart phone then and didn't know the full capabilities of them. But I do know I felt deeply uncomfortable about the positioning of the phone that didn't feel right. Yours might of been lovely. I didn't come away feeling mine was lovely. 14 years later it still makes me feel sick. There was no option to change. There wasn't enough midwives on that night so I was stuck with him.

@MrBlobbyLivesNextDoor - jeez that's awful - why was he allowed to be on his smart phone whilst you were in labour?

You've got no idea what he was up to, could've been harmless, could've not been!

whatnowwhathow · 26/01/2022 11:05

The midwife who escaped jail because of the "glowing" report written by his girlfriend

How can a glowing report ever be written about someone who has accessed and uploaded those images? It is impossible. Surely any sensible person would realise that the woman was being manipulated by someone who accessed and uploaded sickening images who will probably do it again or was herself involved.

AAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH

Gonnagetgoing · 26/01/2022 11:07

@Mummyoflittledragon

Wow! Despicable predators. Perhaps there are great male midwives but I would not have liked a male midwife either. The care women receive from them is far more intimate than that from gynaecologists. And I speak as someone, who had a male gynaecologist for ivf treatment, who also performed intimate biopsies and surgery on me and another, who performed major abdominal surgery on me.
@Mummyoflittledragon - I think there's a big difference between midwives and male gynaecologists etc.

I know through school but she's moved abroad, a midwife - wonder what experiences she had with male midwife colleagues?

MrBlobbyLivesNextDoor · 26/01/2022 11:07

I don't think there should be male midwives. This is all about the men, not the women they are supposed to be supporting.

LaBellina · 26/01/2022 11:07

I openly stated in my birth plan that I did not want any males attending the birth of DS, other then DH. I had an all female team of nurses, midwife, ob gyn and anesthesiologist supporting me and it was great, I felt comfortable and safe. I don’t care if that makes me a bigot for some here or what the male HCP’s at the hospital thought of it. Not my job to spare their feelings.

It’s not women’s job in general to suck it up and be kind during what is probably for most the most vulnerable time in their life. Men shouldn’t be midwives and I always ask for female drs for gynea check ups. It’s not about predatory men per se, it’s about men making me feel more exposed and vulnerable and that’s reason enough to not want them there.

BloomingInformation · 26/01/2022 11:07

Thank you Arabella. I’ve had therapy but my main “therapy” is coming in here and realising I’m not alone. There are so many things that I’m not alone in. I felt I was being unreasonable about. I’m not unreasonable!

I’m so sorry “Blobby”.

AuntyBumBum · 26/01/2022 11:07

Some men do have ulterior motives. Fact. It's not about you and your lovely husband is it ffs. Not all men are sex offenders. But the majority of sex offenders are men. Hth.

And remove men from the situation and a women's problem is very easily solved at a stroke. Why should women need to dance around this point to protect men?

Gonnagetgoing · 26/01/2022 11:09

@EishetChayil

This is why I don't let men anywhere near me. No male midwives, dentists, GPs, nurses. None.
@EishetChayil - that's a bit harsh!

My current dentist made a patronising comment about when he was doing work on my teeth about it being like 'doing a blow dry'. I thought would you say that to a woman but of course didn't speak up.

MilduraS · 26/01/2022 11:10

There was a thread on here not so long ago where a poster was uncomfortable with a male midwife. There was a bit of a divide between those who agreed they'd be uncomfortable and those who thought she was sexist and should be burned at the stake (slight exaggeration but it wasn't a nice discussion).

whatnowwhathow · 26/01/2022 11:10

I had a male midwife and it did not bother me at all, I did not feel uncomfortable. However, as I said above, I am disgusted that anyone who has accessed or uploaded exploitative images escapes jail, just because their girlfriend wrote a glowing letter of support.

MaryAndHerNet · 26/01/2022 11:10

For all the NAMALT types in here..
You need to add a few extra letters to that.

Not All Men Are Like That... But All Men Are Potentially That So Women Need To Minimise Their Risk Of Harm.

NAMALTBAMAPTSWNTMTROH

Croissantly · 26/01/2022 11:10

Controversial maybe but I don't think men should be able to be midwives. I know there are men who specialise in women's health in other branches of healthcare but I don't think it's the same as a profession of which part is really building relationships of sorts with women

MrBlobbyLivesNextDoor · 26/01/2022 11:14

@MrBlobbyLivesNextDoor - jeez that's awful - why was he allowed to be on his smart phone whilst you were in labour?

I know. I asked that of the female midwife. I was in a room on my own, so I guess it provided better opportunity for him to do that. Thing is, the female wasn't even slightly surprised by what I said, which makes me wonder if anyone else had also said something.

You've got no idea what he was up to, could've been harmless, could've not been!

I know. It's the not knowing. Part of me thinks it might have been alright, another part of me wonders if there's photos exchanged amongst his friends or uploaded on a website somewhere. I tried to talk myself into thinking it was probably harmless, but the positioning of the phone, (at slightly the wrong angle for typing, but exactly the right position for taking a photo / video footage,) makes me think it wasn't harmless.

oakleaffy · 26/01/2022 11:14

Awful.
It makes one wish that all Midwives were women.

I had a very violent internal examination while pregnant from a male doctor {who asked that my DH not be in the room with us!}
It was incredibly painful, and I swear no woman would have been so rough.
I still remember his short, white wellies and blue scrubs...and smug expression.
Horrid.

whatnowwhathow · 26/01/2022 11:18

The woman who wrote a glowing letter for her boyfriend which meant he escaped jail is also at fault.

I think the issue here is how to stop the dark web trafficking and abuse, not how to get rid of all male midwives.

lucillelarusso · 26/01/2022 11:18

I had a male midwife. He was rough and unpleasant and really upset DH. My labour stopped and I had a c section. Any attempt I made to discuss what I felt was mistreatment was met with accusations that I had PND or mental health issues.

LilithOfEden · 26/01/2022 11:21

Once again, someone thinks a safeguarding matter is a personal attack on them and their's. Take the emotion out of it. If that stats show that 8% of male midwives are sex offenders (and those are the ones that have been caught), that's a shocking statistic.

Aside from safeguarding, then yes, there is an emotional element to feeling safe and dignified when you are in the most vulnerable situation you are likely to be in as a woman outside of being in the midst of a bodily crime. I had a male midwife and he was an utter arsehole. He had not the faintest idea what I could be going through during an arduous labour because he is a man, nor did he pretend to have any empathy with it.

I would have absolutely no problem at all having medical care administered by professionals along a sex based divide in situations of none emergency intimate care.

ArabellaScott · 26/01/2022 11:33

@whatfreshheck

My husbands an ITU doc. Should he just treat men then? If he is the only consultant on call should he not treat a woman? He also works for the air ambulance. Sometimes it's an all male crew except for the pilot. Should he not treat women in labour that's gone wrong?
He shouldn't treat any woman that for whatever reason has asked for female only care, as is clearly understood and laid out in NHS docs/policies for very good reason. HTH
Laiste · 26/01/2022 11:33

Why is it so hard for intelligent women to see past their own ''lovely husband'' and understand the bigger picture?

It's really odd.

ExConstance · 26/01/2022 11:34

I would have had no objection. I paid a lot of money to have my first delivered at a private hospital by a male obstetrician (Yheudi Gordon, he was amazing) and have only met one female gynaecologist at NHS hospital appointments. I've always been very respectfully treated and as midwives are also medical professionals I would anticipate the same.

letmeeatcrisps · 26/01/2022 11:34

@KevinTheKoala

But what happens after we stop men doing certain jobs? Do we then stop women doing certain jobs as well? Are you OK with male surgeons/anaesthetists? Or do we need a totally segregated system? Stopping men from perusing a midwifery career is not the solution, a smaller number of males will want to become midwives and therefore obviously we do notice the abusive and sick ones more than we do the good but that doesn't meant that their aren't good male midwives, nor does mean there are not horrific female midwives. There needs to be closer monitoring of not just skills and knowledge but personality and whether or not that person is really suitable to work with vulnerable patients.

Obviously everyone has the right to refuse a male midwife and that should not change - that is absolutely 100% fair and I do think it should be asked before the woman goes into labour so that she isn't put on the spot or feels forced to accept. But I don't think its a good idea to deny people certain jobs because of their sex again.

Single sex services wouldn’t prevent men from working, it would just ensure that male medical staff work with men and female staff work with women. In light of the recent study in which male surgeons were found to provide worse care to women and women surgeons had no such bias, I support single sex services wholeheartedly. The Statistics clearly show that women are safer as medical professionals, especially for women.
PineappleCakes · 26/01/2022 11:34

@MaryAndHerNet

For all the NAMALT types in here.. You need to add a few extra letters to that.

Not All Men Are Like That... But All Men Are Potentially That So Women Need To Minimise Their Risk Of Harm.

NAMALTBAMAPTSWNTMTROH

Absolutely Mary.

Recently I've been thinking about NAMALT even more and I've realised it just deflects from the problem of male violence (against both women and men).

NAMALT may be true, but perhaps All Women Fear the Actions of Men, the potential for harm from men.

Safeguarding exists to protect people from all potential risks and women shouldn't have to apologise or make excuses to safeguard themselves.

Brainwave89 · 26/01/2022 11:35

This all feels quite harsh TBH. I am sure that men can make good midwives just as women can do any job a man historically used to do. I do not think we can have it both ways. Friend had a male midwife with no issues at all.

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2022 11:36

'Male midwives are bad' seems to be the phrase here.
But barely a comment about gynacologists.

My experience with a male midwife was that he was extremely woman centred. To the point that he went across the grain with it. I do think he was able to get things pushed through that a woman in the same position wouldn't have been able to - because sexism. And I think this has massively benefitted women in the long run.

He had become a consultant midwife by this point and as such wasn't practicing as much and was much more in a management role.

I am very grateful to him and the disabled midwife who effectively were my advocates against 'the system'.

He left before I had DS (I was having an ELCS by choice so he was never going to deliver my baby).

So I actually think that woman having ago about the phenomen of others saying male midwives being brilliant, are missing a factor in why they might be thought of as that - and not because they are doing the same as female midwives. For me it was precisely because he was male, that I think he was listened to by 'Higher Ups' and was needed because of the sheer degree of institutional sexism.

Thats not right - female midwives should absoluetely be able to do the same. The reality was - for all the reasons by women often don't get senior management roles - that he was able to work all these longer hours, have the career, not worry about childcare etc etc.

And yeah, I don't think we will see calls for the banning of male gynocologyists either.

On the flip side of this, my SIL is a doctor. When she was still training and hadn't decided on the speciality she wanted to do, she was frustrated by the pressure that was present to get as many of her fellow female colleagues to go into 'female health' and she very much felt this way almost restrictive and a sexist attitude in its own right because it was almost 'that was where women belonged'.

The problem goes back to institutional level sexism and a disregard for women and women's health and needs being second class and services for women being a cinderella service which isn't thought of as being an area of prestige.

The worst bit is, that in doing this, it sets up women for poorer health throughout life and that has massive impact on society as a whole. And this has a ripple effect through economics too.

I am not unaware of the irony of why my male midwife was brilliant. It was precisely because of sexism and him being a male worked for me precisely because it meant he was able to navigate that sexism for the benefit of women. I think things would be a hell of a lot worse for a lot of women but for having a male in this role. Its frustrating as hell, and doesn't stop the sexism, but it has moved things forward from the position it was before in some ways although I think the NHS is also rolling back in other ways in terms of women's care.

He went on to work for Birth Rights who I very much think do essential work in this area of advocating for improvements in centring women and upholding their rights in maternity. He didn't have to do this. It was a role on top of practising. And again of course, the reason he probably had time to do that, was because he was a bloke.

What is important is that women have the right to refuse a male midwife - in a tangible way - as in they aren't put in a position where a male is the only person available and they have to suck it up. And that they are subject to greater safeguarding checks generally. Unfortunately in the context of covid staff shortages and midwife shortages generally, thats not happening - and I think thats ultimately where the problem starts to creep in, because 'any midwife is better than no midwife' essentially becomes the mantra and the reality for Trusts. And that also provides and environment where it is much easier for abusers to fly under the radar and get away with unacceptable behaviour because hospitals don't want to have to acknowledge a problem, if that means they are down on staff as a result. Thats about patients effectively being an inconvenience and staff being more important than patients - we've almost slept walked into a situation where its staff centred care rather than patient centred care.

We know generally that women have poorer outcomes with various male HCPs. And the reverse isn't true for men. So its not an issue just restricted to midwives by any means. Naturally there will exceptions to this - on a personal level its a woman who set off my health care anxiety and I've subsequently found she had an appalling record and reputation and was eventually 'asked to leave' as a result.

I wonder if maybe part of the issue is that women find it harder to make complaints about male HCPs so issues aren't flagged as quickly as they might be with a female.