Male midwife facing 29 charges of misconduct,

[TheLoneRager]

NMC hearing started today, expected to last four days, of a senior male midwife accused of, among other things, having taken pictures of two women having caesarian sections without their permission and also filmed himself performing a sex act in a hospital toilet.
He faces 29 misconduct charges.

Will be watching this case this week.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10439033/Bullying-male-midwife-alleged-taken-pictures-two-women-having-Caesarean-sections.html

@whatfreshheck

What?? Now you are suggesting they are pedophiles? Get a grip ffs.

Not all but too many

Article Aug 2021 Midwife Christopher Ewan www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/married-paedophile-nhs-nurse-admits-24744975

Article Sept 2021 Midwife Scott Butler www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9989159/Male-midwife-39-caught-stash-400-indecent-images-children.html

Article July 2021 Midwife Jack Newey Bradley www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/west-midlands-police-custody-nurse-21149382

Article Oct 2021 Nurse Thomas Harrison is www.latintimes.com/pedophile-nurse-who-plotted-sexually-abuse-4-month-old-baby-cut-nursing-council-489118

Article August 2021 Nurse Tommaso Rasetti www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19514005.paedophile-told-girl-pervy-man/

Horrifyingly these are all reports from a short period of time

@Whatwouldscullydo

I got annoyed at him and said these men aren't going through years of training just to see undressed women - that's the opposite of opportunistic

But they do. They really do. Men will literally do anything. A few years back there was a newspaper article about a body found in the women's loos some where. He'd crawled into a vent and obviously couldn't get out again. The article was written in such a way as to convey absolute ignorance over what a man would be doing inside a wall in the womens toilets.

Then there's the septic tank story.

And paramedics, drs, teachers , priests etc all have undergone lots of training or made lots if sacrifices in order to gain access.

Quite. Men have literally joined the priesthood or made their entire careers around getting closer to victims. The argument that "but men wouldn't do X" holds no water.

I completely understand why women want female midwives and would feel the same. However saying women should only see female medical professionals (doctors, dentists etc) is wrong, it's taking away the choice.

If I have to see the GP I always choose the one male GP over the females as he's kind, compassionate and actually listens to his patients. I've delayed appointments to see him rather than see one of the female doctors.

My dentist is male and again is amazing. My female dentist was a bitch.

I completely understand those choices are not for everyone, but why should my choice to see someone I'm comfortable with be taken away just because they happen to be male?

‘ Are you OK with male surgeons/anaesthetists? Or do we need a totally segregated system? ’

Male surgeons and anaesthetists haven’t chosen a career where they work exclusively with women and babies. They could be working with any sex or age. I’m suspicious of men who purposely choose to work with a vulnerable group that’s exclusively the opposite sex.

Conversations about choosing sex of provider often come up on the medical corners of Twitter and there’s always male doctors arguing that women who request no male doctors or students for gynae procedures or whatnot are discriminatory and how unfair/hurtful it is. Always alongside the ‘how would you feel if a man said NO FEMALE doctors? Would you only be treated for cancer by a doctor who has had cancer?’ tropes.

It’s absolutely astonishing

@Whatwouldscullydo

I got annoyed at him and said these men aren't going through years of training just to see undressed women - that's the opposite of opportunistic

But they do. They really do. Men will literally do anything. A few years back there was a newspaper article about a body found in the women's loos some where. He'd crawled into a vent and obviously couldn't get out again. The article was written in such a way as to convey absolute ignorance over what a man would be doing inside a wall in the womens toilets.

Then there's the septic tank story.

And paramedics, drs, teachers , priests etc all have undergone lots of training or made lots if sacrifices in order to gain access.

You're quite right, of course. He said it a few years ago and it sounded absurd to me (we were around 25yo, so maybe it was age, maybe I'm just personally naive) so I defended men in these types of roles. I definitely wouldn't be so quick to jump to that stance now though, I've read too many horrifying articles.

Male surgeons and anaesthetists haven’t chosen a career where they work exclusively with women and babies. They could be working with any sex or age. I’m suspicious of men who purposely choose to work with a vulnerable group that’s exclusively the opposite sex

Doesn't stop things like this happening though.

I've given 2 sources in the hope one is at least deemed acceptable

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/05/14/pelvic-exams-on-anesthetized-women-without-consent-a-troubling-and-outdated-practice/amp/

www.healthywomen.org/your-care/pelvic-exams-unconscious-women/nonconsensual-pelvic-exams-are-still-happening

@brunonononono

Conversations about choosing sex of provider often come up on the medical corners of Twitter and there’s always male doctors arguing that women who request no male doctors or students for gynae procedures or whatnot are discriminatory and how unfair/hurtful it is. Always alongside the ‘how would you feel if a man said NO FEMALE doctors? Would you only be treated for cancer by a doctor who has had cancer?’ tropes.

It’s absolutely astonishing

It's almost as if they think that females and males perpetrate violent and sexual crime at the same rate. As if it's a level playing field. As if therefore that men should be afforded the same level of trust as women.

Are they ignorant of the facts? Or just pretend to be? Either way is not a good look for supposedly intelligent people is it?

Even if they haven’t directly set out from the very start to specifically work on that role, It’s so surprise if the male medical students who are particularly misogynistic or creepy anyway find themselves drawn to the speciality involving being in authority over and having access to extremely vulnerable women and their bodies.

And this is just the ones who got caught.

Ever driven over the speeding limit? Did you get caught? Hoe many people who break the law actually get caught? Not many.

There are many many jobs in the world, and those jobs that involve regularly handling the genitals of women at their most vulnerable time, should be reserved exclusively for (natal) women.

But our lawmakes are faaaaar more concerned with protecting the feelings of whingy entitled men than with safeguarding the welfare of vulnerable women.

@Laiste

Every women is going to have their own experience with male midwives/gynes/obs.

You can argue till you're blue in the face about personal experiences and anecdotes.

BUT

The bare statistics at the start of this thread are what have got it to the front page of MN today. Not stories. Facts.

Facts are what women all should be sitting up and paying attention to. What everyone should be sitting up and paying attention to.

Facts are not the same as 'fears'.

Despite the good start sadly this thread is slipping down into familiar ''but not MY husband'' and ''but good men matter more than all women'' territory.

The question should be 'what has to happen to improve things for women'.

I am unconvinced by the idea that single sex health care would improve that for various reasons that I've stated above.

There aren't statistics that answer that question in western society. In the places it does exist, I'm not sure that it really benefits women. The sexism still exists.

Its a classic trap of thinking that 'banning' something works.

What women need is the power being placed back into their hands in someway.

Perhaps an active campaign by the NHS on consent for patients on where they have grounds to complain as well as one for training on this for staff. Make it a central important key thing.

But the state of the NHS makes that difficult. I avoid seeing a doctor without DH because he is much more assertive than I am and knows what I am comfortable with (and how I find it extremely difficult to challenge). I can't help but think at this point that the side effect of covid and not being able to have support with you, will have particularly harsh effect on women and that its convenient for the NHS because it is allowing them to get away with a whole bunch of unacceptable things because its behind closed doors in a sense and its just one person's word against a huge organisation. I can well imagine it carrying on for far longer than it has any effect of protecting patients and staff from covid for that reason.

When you analyse a problem and think about solutions, you asses WHY something is happening, not simply look at what is happening.

So yes the stats are dreadful. The next question is why, and is there a particular common feature amongst these males. Is it just because they are male or is there in effect 'a comorbidity' going on? Can we identify it, and can we then safeguard against it.

You also ask, what else might be going on - in this case he was able to commit how many offenses? We know about so many incidents - so why was he able to do this so often without challenge from other staff? Was it because he was working alone? Is it because female staff deferred to him?

Then you come up with a range of solutions - and assess how effective they might be.

Crucial to this, I do think, is the issue that if institutional level sexism is at play here, do we think that the solution is tackling that or just making women be pushed into a corner where they have to put safety before sexism, and in the process services get even more second class with the health care system overall.

Really, we have to almost elevate the status of women's health and empower women to be demanding better care, better attitudes towards them, being taken more seriously and crucially feel they have the absoluete right to demand this rather than the mentality thats particularly rife with women that we should just be grateful for 'free healthcare' even if its substandard.

Whats very apparent from these type of threads are the number of women who generally berate other women for not sucking up something they are uncomfortable with. The 'be kind' mentality isn't helping women generally. It just sets up the notion that we are there to serve or support and that we shouldn't challenge where appropriate.

I think there are a LOT of things going on with this, and its far too simplistic to simply say 'oh all men are the problem' on this one. The framing should be more 'when are men inappropriate and why are they inappropriate' and then start from that point instead. It may reveal something specific that is a red flag and it may show up areas where women don't feel a choice is available to them, and how you go about changing that power dynamic.

Thats not saying 'but good men matter than all women' territory. Its not over simplifying the issue and its about empowering women as part of the process.

female midwives/ nurses have also done disgusting things though. Including murdering patients.

You could never stop men from becoming midwives, the majority of them are fab! There’s always going to be some that aren’t but that’s the same for women too.

Plus the issue of trans men who give birth, imagine if they couldn’t access male healthcare for womens issues?

I always end up commenting on threads of this sort because I can’t abide the adoration that goes with HCPs, usually men, that allows abuse to be perpetuated.
I was sexually assaulted by a paediatric consultant - a man, who is married to a man, so allegedly homosexual. I was not believed by the hospital when I reported it.
I was made to feel like I was insane, frankly.
I have emails from the senior paediatric consultants in that hospital- written between each other, agreeing to leave out references to sexual “harassment “ when replying to my MP who had made representations on behalf.
Not assault - harassment- minimising.
The first female consultant (who was the first HCP I told) tried to convince me a) it didn’t happen and b) the consultant shouldn’t be reported.
I told her I wanted a formal complaint lodged.
4 weeks later it still wasn’t.
I have emails between the consultants asking if they should just not bother to write back to me after I got the first decision into their alleged investigation and I had a complete breakdown.
They sent Social Services to investigate me. I have evidence of the lies they told SS.
They ignored vital evidence and made excuses for the “lovely gay consultant”. For instance, that he had a photo of me, taken and shared without my consent.
That consultant is still practicing. He is a neonatal lead in his hospital- just think how many young, vulnerable women (and men) he has access to.
I believe he is doing the same thing to another woman currently but can’t prove it.
I’ve been to the police etc and matters are not finally concluded but .. the hospital also lied in a published FOI request about the nature of the two formal complaints registered against him.
In his case sexual assault complaint (I am one of those complaining) and whatever the other one is - are publicly described as “communication “ complaints.

I never see a male HCP alone unless it’s an emergency. And I do not blame others for doing so either

If this is how you're thinking you need to prove that having male midwives has improved the care of women.

Can you do that?

I think I covered that in a previous post actually.

Sickening.

I would’ve refused a male midwife for reasons sort of unknown, I knew I just wouldn’t be comfortable. My husband couldn’t understand why. Well this is why!!

I was very pleased when the whole team doing my c-section for my second birth were women. It put me at ease at a very scary time.

@Staryflight445

female midwives/ nurses have also done disgusting things though. Including murdering patients.

You could never stop men from becoming midwives, the majority of them are fab! There’s always going to be some that aren’t but that’s the same for women too.

Plus the issue of trans men who give birth, imagine if they couldn’t access male healthcare for womens issues?

What? This makes no sense. Why would trans men need male healthcare? They are biological women

Plus the issue of trans men who give birth, imagine if they couldn’t access male healthcare for womens issues?

A transman is female, you do understand? They don't need 'male' healthcare.

TWENTY NINE offenses is AT LEAST twenty nine separate occasions where nothing was seen, spotted, no one complained, no one challenged etc.

Its convenient for a hospital to lay it all on the idea of 'a rogue male member of staff' rather than asking rather more questions about the culture at the hospital and how women seemingly haven't said anything. Repeatedly.

If you just ban male midwives, you almost let the hospital off the hook and don't ask a lot of the questions which might protect patients from other members of staff. In maternity and in other departments.

I think, to a degree, the fact this has occurs in a maternity ward, is actually a bit of a red herring.

What? This makes no sense. Why would trans men need male healthcare? They are biological women

Plus they are there to deliver care. Not affirm identities. That's the friends and families job.

I'm.sure staff can also object to being placed in certain situations too. Asking fir a male specifically to do an intimate exam. Well he would have a right to refuse as its his name dragged through the mud should a complaint be made. A female chaperone would also have to he present. There is no way to get out of your sex

@makingmiracles I agree and have thought this about gynecologists. At a time when women are vulnerable, lying there being examined by a male does not always feel comfortbale. For a start, they can't possibly understand the pain or mental impact of having something wrong with you can be. There have been a couple of occasions where I definitely would have preferred a female.

Of course I understand, but they’re presenting male.

This seems to be the way things are going

I wonder if anyone can name any set of circumstances where bigotry-based bans and prohibitions and moral panics have ever done anything other than make things ultimately worse for those they will supposedly protect. An 'only women can practice gynaecology/obstetrics' would most likely lead to reduced funding (and reduced pay of course) for those working in the sector, which would lead on to staff shortages and an already underfunded type of healthcare being pushed further into the background.
It would also lead to an increasing culture of sex segregation, which would not benefit women at all (it really, really isn't that big a distance from 'women should be able to avoid interaction with men if they feel at risk' to 'women must be kept apart from men ie placed under far more restrictions than men, for their own safety, whether they like it or not.'
Feminists have fought for centuries for women to be able to go out 'unchaperoned', to mix with men other than their male owners, yet there is an increasing strand of feminist thought demanding women retire from public life because waa, penis!

As some PP have said, there are problems with women's healthcare, and issues around patient consent being overridden, but these need addressing overall. And insisting that any man who wants to work in obstetrics/gynaecology must be a woman-hating predator is absolutely not the way to fix this.

@Brainwave89

This all feels quite harsh TBH. I am sure that men can make good midwives just as women can do any job a man historically used to do. I do not think we can have it both ways. Friend had a male midwife with no issues at all.

This all feels a bit harsh? Not the many women on here talking about their disturbing experiences with male HCPs. Funny how with some people speaking up about abuse is "harsh" but not a word agains the abuse itself.

What about male sonographers (for pregnancy)? I've had a few scans done by men (both internal and external) and in general the experience has been fine or even particularly good and kind. I've also been seen by very insensitive midwives who told me off for going for a scan after a miscarriage two days prior as they said ut was too soon (but someone else had decided I should have the appointment). She didn't even give me her condolences for what had happened two days before.

I personally wouldn't mind a male midwife in principle, but of course if something seemed off I'd say something. Now reading these articles I have to agree it sounds like there's a lot of bastards for such a small group of people.