Male midwife facing 29 charges of misconduct,

[TheLoneRager]

NMC hearing started today, expected to last four days, of a senior male midwife accused of, among other things, having taken pictures of two women having caesarian sections without their permission and also filmed himself performing a sex act in a hospital toilet.
He faces 29 misconduct charges.

Will be watching this case this week.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10439033/Bullying-male-midwife-alleged-taken-pictures-two-women-having-Caesarean-sections.html

The Missing Stair theory might apply here – that creep everyone learns to work around. I look back and there were so many men like that where I grew up.

*I wonder if this is Best of the best in action…

Women (surgeons in this case) will be more frequency discouraged, drop out, receive far less benefit of the doubt than male counterparts.
Be more likely to be sacked for a single mistake (like people of colour) than men.
Be more likely to undertake childcare than men.*

This was my immediate thought BUT there was no difference for male patients on whether they were operated on by a male or female doctor.

It can also be intimidating to report a male colleague, I think the onus should be on the man to not be inappropriate rather than wondering why it wasn't reported (more to the point acted on, things get reported frequently and nothing comes of it).

@makingmiracles

Rightly or wrongly, in my opinion men should not be midwives. Whilst doing my midwifery(didn’t end up completing) degree I worked with a male midwife on postnatal ward, everyone seemed to love him but I found out one night in the early hours he was quite a bully and extremely sharp tongued, I was a first yr student, he’d asked my to do bloods at 4am and given how tired I was (I also had 2young kids myself) I said I wasn’t confident in my ability to do it safely. He got extremely annoyed with me and sent me home.

Women are at their most vulnerable time in their lives whilst giving birth and afterwards and personally I do think it should be a job for women only.

When I had my child there was a male midwife. Out of all the midwives I came across during my stay at hospital, he was the only kind one. The only one to show me any kindness, compassion and time to explain things. I’d have preferred ten of him rather than any of the other hard faced witches purporting to be in a caring profession.

@coldfeetmama

I work with a male midwife I am his manager One of the first things I said to him was - without fail - do not - see / examine / discuss / offer any kind of treatment or examination without an escort He fully understands the situation and we are protecting him and the public

I wouldn't have wanted a male midwife myself but he is qualified , kind , empathetic , patient and very knowledgeable so I support him and have only had one lady refuse his care , which is fine

And do you make it clear to all the pregnant women coming in that they have a choice?

I would not have had any idea I could say I’m not comfortable with a male midwife when I had my children.

If it isn’t being made clear to all women then they don't actually have a choice. Only the more confident articulate women have a choice.

@MananaTomorrow there is that!!!

@brunonononono

*I wonder if this is Best of the best in action…

Women (surgeons in this case) will be more frequency discouraged, drop out, receive far less benefit of the doubt than male counterparts.
Be more likely to be sacked for a single mistake (like people of colour) than men.
Be more likely to undertake childcare than men.*

This was my immediate thought BUT there was no difference for male patients on whether they were operated on by a male or female doctor.

This then, is really quite horrific. It’s deeply saddening. I feel the need to ‘arm’ my daughters against much of this world.. and that makes me very sad indeed.

I’ve posted up thread a fair bit. I’m not against male midwives - I had one when I came around after having my DD under general anaesthetic and he was great. He was new to the job - delivered his first baby that day and helped me to express colostrum.
I didn’t get a say in the matter however..
Just saying it’d be nice to be asked..
And that was before I was sexually assaulted by my daughter’s paediatric consultant- had it been afterwards I’d have complained on the spot.

@coldfeetmama

I work with a male midwife I am his manager One of the first things I said to him was - without fail - do not - see / examine / discuss / offer any kind of treatment or examination without an escort He fully understands the situation and we are protecting him and the public

I wouldn't have wanted a male midwife myself but he is qualified , kind , empathetic , patient and very knowledgeable so I support him and have only had one lady refuse his care , which is fine

What truly happens then when a lady attends to an ever overstretch maternity ward and a male midwife is the only one available? Or he is the only one available to be second in the room? To cover a break?

She would, in all likelihood, concede ‘for the baby’.
Not to kick up a fuss
Not to speak up and receive eye rolls abs sideways glances.

What option is there exactly? No option..

Same goes for male Obsgynae too.

I don’t know what the answer is.

Apart from for men to stop abusing women, perhaps.

See with this particular case, many of the things he did, who could have been doing on any other ward if he was a nurse. Some were unique to maternity but certainly not all. So if he was barred from maternity on the grounds that he was male alone, would that make women safe? The contempt for women would be still be there...

It still would be down for colleagues to challenge. Is it because it was an all female staff, bar him, that was part of the issue too (ironically)?

This man was quite simply unsuitable to be working on ANY ward.

Obs and gynae is becoming increasingly female-dominated too, about 85% of newly qualified drs in that area are female in both the UK and USA which is amazing when you consider only a few decades ago it was the other way round. Apparently this in turn is making it harder for men to train as women are more able to say no thanks to a male doctor and exercise their preference to be cared for by females. There was a moany article about it in the New York Times a while back with some unhappy male obgyns. It’s predicted men could disappear from the field completely if the trend keeps up.

I often do find that, when talking about birth experiences, women often say ‘I was lucky/fortunate that all the staff in theatre were women’ I definitely think there’s a huge shift in the dynamics and atmosphere having strange men present or not during birth.

I had a male midwife. He told me to call him whenever I wanted to feed my baby so he could help. I never called him - it was too uncomfortable! So I struggled on my own and ended up giving up. I was so determined to do it and I feel like he kind of stole that from me. I should have just asked for a different midwife but I was too polite…

I should have just asked for a different midwife but I was too polite

I wonder how many of us reflect upon times when our politeness was a euphemism for an act of self-harm or condoned harm to others?

@brunonononono

Obs and gynae is becoming increasingly female-dominated too, about 85% of newly qualified drs in that area are female in both the UK and USA which is amazing when you consider only a few decades ago it was the other way round. Apparently this in turn is making it harder for men to train as women are more able to say no thanks to a male doctor and exercise their preference to be cared for by females. There was a moany article about it in the New York Times a while back with some unhappy male obgyns. It’s predicted men could disappear from the field completely if the trend keeps up.

I often do find that, when talking about birth experiences, women often say ‘I was lucky/fortunate that all the staff in theatre were women’ I definitely think there’s a huge shift in the dynamics and atmosphere having strange men present or not during birth.

I looked up that article - this line stood out, among many:

"Dr. Saketh Guntupalli, a gynecological oncologist at the University of Colorado, raised the stakes. “If you exclude 50% of people from anything, think about how much you’ve lost,” he said. “You might lose the next person who's going find a cure for cancer.”

He's so close to getting to a really good point there....

I knew of one, and I can honestly say that I would have refused to have him. Something just wasn’t right, and I always trust my gut.

@greenmarlin
Sure - excluding 50% of any type of person will have consequences.
And it shouldn’t come down to even having to consider excluding men.
But in a world where men belittle, behave inappropriately (say taking pictures of Caesarean sections without consent), verbally abuse vulnerable women, sexually assault, rape or film invasive or intimate examinations, try to pressure patients into dates (there have been many of these type suspended by the GMC though rarely struck off at Tribunal), what sensible options are there other than for women to be permitted to express an opinion?
It’s not like researchers into cancer/vaccines etc are examining pelvic areas with labouring women I’d imagine

I’m also wondering why so many people say they wouldn’t want a male MW about will have no issue with a male gynaecologist at the birth (one was there with Dc1 for a ventouse delivery, they are the ones who perform CS etc etc).

I would assume because a woman is in a 1-2-1 situation with a midwife during labour (hospital) and unchaperoned if unaccompanied or her birth partner has stepped out to eat/use the loo etc. By the time an obstetrician shows up, something is likely not going to plan and there are a whole lot more hangers-on. IME that included: medical students, anaesthetists, neonatal nurses, theatre assistants and so on. Even at night the medics in the HDU checking me over normally had a student or junior doctor in tow.

I would not have been keen on a male midwife. I had a very painful, rough vaginal ultrasound from a male ob-gyn consultant at a private abnormality scan that still doesn’t sit right with me. I didn’t dare complain or move because I wanted to know DS was OK. The power imbalance was huge and I felt vulnerable in that moment. I caught the chaperone nurse’s eye and got the impression she was uncomfortable with his behaviour too, but not a word was said.

With that in mind, my thoughts are with the women these men were responsible for in labour and I commend the bravery of the women who complained.

I’ve heard of many cases where the chaperone looks uncomfortable with what’s happening and doesn’t say anything.

[quote Blue4YOU]@greenmarlin
Sure - excluding 50% of any type of person will have consequences.
And it shouldn’t come down to even having to consider excluding men.
But in a world where men belittle, behave inappropriately (say taking pictures of Caesarean sections without consent), verbally abuse vulnerable women, sexually assault, rape or film invasive or intimate examinations, try to pressure patients into dates (there have been many of these type suspended by the GMC though rarely struck off at Tribunal), what sensible options are there other than for women to be permitted to express an opinion?
It’s not like researchers into cancer/vaccines etc are examining pelvic areas with labouring women I’d imagine[/quote]
I agree - my point was that in medicine and many other places we operated for a long time with 50% of people being excluded. But suddenly, when that 50% includes male doctors, you "might lose the next person whose going to discover a cure for cancer."

Suddenly it's a big, terrible problem!

@BettyFilous from what a previous poster said, i got the feeling said male MW tend to have a chaperone with them.
(Not that, as you said, it offers a great protection …).

Maybe we need to start by being clear about what are the rules about having a chaperone there when treated by a male HCP.

@Laiste

yeah, i noticed the ''yelling''.

at least we're not actually 'hysterical' yet

Give it another couple of pages 🙄

But if male MWs require a chaperone doesn't that make them unsustainable staffing wise? Who is chaperoning them? Are they pulling away other, female MWs from their duties to do so? So women in labour get their care even more compromised in a time of already stretched resource?

Why are these men being pandered to so much? And why is it some HCP here will say "oh yes lots of women say no" and others "oh I've only ever had one say no, luckily'

Makes you wonder if women are actually asked in the first scenario and not in the second.....

@greenmarlin
Ah, sorry I didn’t mean to misrepresent you. But yes - how right you are!!

@JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff

But if male MWs require a chaperone doesn't that make them unsustainable staffing wise? Who is chaperoning them? Are they pulling away other, female MWs from their duties to do so? So women in labour get their care even more compromised in a time of already stretched resource?

Why are these men being pandered to so much? And why is it some HCP here will say "oh yes lots of women say no" and others "oh I've only ever had one say no, luckily'

Makes you wonder if women are actually asked in the first scenario and not in the second.....

Good point re chaperone and staffing.

100% agree it would be interesting to know how women are being asked

I’d really like to see @coldfeetmama respond to the questions on this page (13)

Men should not be midwives. End of.