Male midwife facing 29 charges of misconduct,

[TheLoneRager]

NMC hearing started today, expected to last four days, of a senior male midwife accused of, among other things, having taken pictures of two women having caesarian sections without their permission and also filmed himself performing a sex act in a hospital toilet.
He faces 29 misconduct charges.

Will be watching this case this week.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10439033/Bullying-male-midwife-alleged-taken-pictures-two-women-having-Caesarean-sections.html

@SamphiretheStickerist
Of course it’s weird to have to even consider officially recording something in a doctor’s office/surgery etc
But given how vocal “he said/she said” means no “evidence “ (by which is usually meant incontrovertible objective evidence) can be adduced means we “MUST” assume the perpetrator is “innocent until proven guilty” stance (which is actually meant to be the position a jury or judge takes in relation to a case rather than say the police or the GMC.. just leads to the corollary claim being accepted as common sense: that is, assuming no “concrete”/objective or independent evidence means a claim must either be false or is unprovable.
Holocaust deniers used the same logic.
I don’t want to be on cctv in a doctor’s surgery.
But.. they have CCTV in all the corridors- to prevent assault in HCPs (which sadly does occur).
And we don’t get to consent to that either.
I’m not suggesting CCTV is appropriate or the only solution but until phrases like “crying rape” stop being a rallying cry to not listen to women in complaints that could help identify abusers earlier rather than later, I’m going to say the onus is on employers and regulators to work on this

I wasn't disagreeing with you @Blue4YOU

I was agreeing with you, adding to the idea of how bloody ridiculous it is, living within the current socal state of patriarchy!

@amusedbush

This thread is a depressing read. A few years ago my DH joked that he didn't trust men in any OBGYN role because it's "weird and creepy" and there's "something off" about a man who wants to do that job. I got annoyed at him and said these men aren't going through years of training just to see undressed women - that's the opposite of opportunistic.

These stats are not good though, maybe he was on to something. The men in these anecdotes should be nowhere near women in the most vulnerable moments of their lives.

But many many men go through years and years of training to gain access to women and girls. Larry Nasser, Serge mombo, Andy king Jerry sandusky and the Mali basketball coach to name a few in sports.

Then we get to priests and we all know how that went, requires about 5 years of training after a bachelors.

The medical field is no better or worse populated by abusers than any other field.
They live among us and generally cant be detected.

No I know. I’m agreeing with you too. Sorry should have said

That was for @SamphiretheStickerist

S'OK @Blue4YOU

Sometimes losing the 'tone' of a post is easily done.

As we have both just shown

I have it in my notes to only be seen by female medics. In an emergency situation of course I accept male medics, but if there's time for a choice, I have female. Every time.

When I have ended up with male in an emergency, they've always been very careful with me and I've always thanked them for that. Male medics were not careful with me earlier in my life, including sexual assault when I was quite ill and alone. I don't care the reason they're careful with me after seeing my notes - their nature/chance/fear I'm someone who makes false accusations (I'm not) - the fact I've not had a panic attack or been left needing therapy is valuable to me.

Just going to add that I would refuse a mammogram with a male nurse. I don't know if men do that, but I can imagine some would want to. I don't think men should ever be in that role. Don't care if it's sexist. If men said they didn't want females staying their genitals, only other men should do that, I would not object.

*xraying their genitals

When I read these articles I'm always astonished at how long people get away with bad behaviour. It's not just a vetting and training issue, it's also a complete lack of reporting and reviewing mechanism in the NHS.

I used to work in a bank branch and if a customer complained we were regulatorily required to record it within 48 hours. It didn't matter if we thought the complaint was absurd - it had to be recorded, the wording confirmed with the customer and only then could it be reviewed and either dismissed or actioned.

Not recording the complaint, even if you genuinely forgot because you were busy, was a breach - 2 in a year was an immediate under performer rating for you personally and also impacted your manager.

As a consequence the whole team knew that we had a responsibility to act on complaints, not try to talk a customer out of complaining, and the manager was also seriously invested in listening to customers.

Imagine how much more confident you would feel as a patient if you knew that all staff were obliged to take any and all complaints seriously and to record them to your satisfaction. Imagine how much faster you could identify "rotten apples" if evidence, even the small stuff, was recorded and linked together rather than shut down in a culture of silence.

To be fair, there are several other studies showing that being operated in by a male surgeon isn’t as good a being operated in by a female surgeon…
Apparently women are better anyway 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

MoltenLasagne I think abusers groom everyone, not just person they are assaulting.

This wasn't assault, but I recently went to a new GP and he was 'off' in a couple of things he did to me.

When I went out to the receptionists, I asked for a different, female doctor for the next appointment. They gave each other a definite Look and changed my doctor immediately. His wife is the other receptionist and she wasn't on that day, had she been, it would have been harder to ask.

I imagine he is the head of the practice, these women depend on him for their employment, everyone knows he's a bit of a sleaze but he's also probably competent and runs a tight ship and everyone just works around it for an easy life.

Allegations are landmines, and I think with such HCPs they rely on people being too busy, scared, distracted, blissfully unaware to blow the whistle.

The thing with complaints is, ALL should be logged no matter how silly they sound or how 'unreliable' the accuser is.

If you then see someone with a particularly high level of complaints, then you can start to look a little closer. If you see a pattern of the same complaints then you can bet your life there is a problem that needs addressing in some way, even if thats just about basic bedside manner rather than something more sinister.

A culture were complaints are made easy and actively encouraged, should be healthier than one where the culture is to close ranks and protect staff.

I know the staff complaint will be that it puts them under extra stress but thats down to poor management rather than the patients to accomodate.

If anything we should be framing this as 'constructive criticism primarily' and normalising complaints.

Instead, the hoops for complaints and the obstacles and attitude you get are dreadful. It can be a distressing process because of the system as much as the actual complaint.

The case in the OP is striking because it was TWENTY NINE counts (god knows how many he actually did). Thats the thing that really jumps out at me in terms of lost opportunities to deal with the issue much sooner.

[quote WorkingClassWoman]Not all male midwives are sensitive to the needs of women who want female only environment.

Chris Butt (a practising midwife) threw a hissy fit when he requested to attend a female only breastfeeding session of the NCT and was directed to an alternative group that wasn’t female only ie. One where male partners could also attend. The NCT is a private organisation that is not part of the NHS and women pay to attend for additional support. The only difference between the group he asked to attend and the other is that the one he wanted to attend was for women who had requested a woman only group . He didn't go to the other group so can’t have been that interested in learning about how to support breastfeeding.

www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9971617.male-midwife-hits-out-at-breastfeeding-group-ban/[/quote]
Quite. And on this thread we have the example of a female midwife voicing dismissal and annoyance of women who upset her male colleague by saying no to him.

Women should not be required to get undressed and accept intimacy with a male person on the grounds that the male will be sad and feel rejected if she says no. The woman's comfort and needs should never be secondary and when she's giving birth ffs? Any professional more interested in how the patient is meeting the needs of the midwife needs than having a patient as relaxed and confident in their care as possible is in need of some urgent supervision work.

There needs to be choice. If there are going to be mixed sex provisions, this needs to be entirely based on informed choice, with no pressure (all the other women here are muslim so you HAVE to have the male midwife even though you don't want to) or (my male colleague is LOVELY don't be a nasty bigot/not my Nigel) or (there's no one else on duty so get on with it). And professionals, particularly those male ones wishing to be in this position of extreme trust with women, need to put their own agendas aside.

As for the 'get rid of perverts before they qualify' - unfortunately this does mean waiting until a woman's been hurt and feels able to report it before you can go 'oh there's one'. Not great safeguarding. Again, it's up to women to take that informed risk if they choose to. And people need to accept that many won't.

The mixed sex experiment has been tried and it is not working for many women.

I work with a male midwife
I am his manager
One of the first things I said to him was - without fail - do not - see / examine / discuss / offer any kind of treatment or examination without an escort
He fully understands the situation and we are protecting him and the public

I wouldn't have wanted a male midwife myself but he is qualified , kind , empathetic , patient and very knowledgeable so I support him and have only had one lady refuse his care , which is fine

I agree, which is why there should be a blanket policy of recording all complaints, no matter how small or who they're about.

Complaints are not necessarily all allegations and certainly shouldn't be landmines. When you're in a situation of being almost entirely 1-1 with patients without oversight there needs to be a mechanism where they can feedback on manner or even minor concerns and be listened to, as well as the more serious stuff. Currently I can only think of PALS which, as you said, I'd only consider for something major. Patient experience should be about setting a higher bar than "wasn't sexually assaulted or told to fuck off".

The interesting thing about this story is that he told a colleague she had a "gorgeous figure" and would bring some "glamour and youth to the team."

So he was a being a creep and overstepping boundaries by commenting on her body.

He was also being rather nasty about the other women on the team - ageist and judgemental.

Possibly this new recruit was the one who complained, while everyone else had been bullied into submission, was scared of him, or felt there was nothing they could do about someone more senior.

For there to be 29 counts he must have had some degree of power and was in with the right people higher up. He has lost his job, which is a good thing.

"Interesting thing" is the wrong wording - I mean telling.

But many many men go through years and years of training to gain access to women and girls. Larry Nasser, Serge mombo, Andy king Jerry sandusky and the Mali basketball coach to name a few in sports.

Listen to "Where is George Gibney" on BBC Sounds. GG was, until relatively recently, Ireland's top swimming coach. And a serial rapist who is still at large, and whose behaviour should be a national scandal in that country. Why would he do all those early morning training meets? Why would he bother dealing with the arse ache that is organising galas? Why would he shlep around the country/world with a load of swimmers who will never make it big? Why would he put himself out doing all the Coach/Judge/Swim Manager training? Why would he bother? Why? Because in doing so he became a national hero, lauded in the press and by the government, beloved of parents with ambitions for their children. And that created a massive facade of respect for him, and meant his victims were not believed, or felt they would not be believed so didn't report his rapes. They just dropped out of their beloved sport, turned to drugs, ended up in institutions, suicide, scarred forever.

Yeah but NAMALT

@greenmarlin

The interesting thing about this story is that he told a colleague she had a "gorgeous figure" and would bring some "glamour and youth to the team."

So he was a being a creep and overstepping boundaries by commenting on her body.

He was also being rather nasty about the other women on the team - ageist and judgemental.

Possibly this new recruit was the one who complained, while everyone else had been bullied into submission, was scared of him, or felt there was nothing they could do about someone more senior.

For there to be 29 counts he must have had some degree of power and was in with the right people higher up. He has lost his job, which is a good thing.

Every member of staff on the team put him and themselves before patients when they turned blind eyes.

Why did they do that? As I say - this isn't just about him - its about the culture in that department and that hospital in which he was able to become the 'sacred caste' and wasn't dealt with much earlier

It absoluetely matters why staff were too afraid or indifferent to behaviour that crossed the line.

@MananaTomorrow

To be fair, there are several other studies showing that being operated in by a male surgeon isn’t as good a being operated in by a female surgeon… Apparently women are better anyway 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I wonder if this is Best of the best in action…

Women (surgeons in this case) will be more frequency discouraged, drop out, receive far less benefit of the doubt than male counterparts.
Be more likely to be sacked for a single mistake (like people of colour) than men.
Be more likely to undertake childcare than men.

What is left is the very very ‘best’ most determined women with very specific home life circumstances (of course many many of those pushed out one way or another were also very very good).

RedToothBrush I agree. He was there for 18 years, and it (possibly, I am reading between the lines) took someone new to come in and say, this is wrong, when he started commenting on her body in an interview - right from the start he was overstepping, doing that thing that bullies are so good at of flattering one person at the expense of others.

None of what is reported sounds like sexual assault, more a deep contempt for women and the job itself.

But as you say for that behaviour to go on for so long, for him to be untouchable, suggests a much bigger problem within that hospital.

This thread is a fascinating read. It's amazing how many women, even in maternity situations, accept the socialisation that women are not real people who have a real, independent, important existence of their own in their own right, going along with the belief that women only truly exist to demonstrate how terrific, just terrific, men really are.

I'm going to let you bright gals in on a little secret - NAMALT.

Some of them are absolute pigs.

@Chillyseadippin, I’d rather think that men aren’t as good as they make out to be

"Mr Joshi told the panel that Mr Johnson was jokingly referred to as the 'Scarlet Pimpernel' due to his habit of disappearing while on shift without telling colleagues where he had gone.
It is alleged that, during one such absence, he told a colleague he was moving his car, but subsequently messaged the co-worker he was in a relationship with that he had gone to an adult shop."

It certainly shows how secure he felt in his position that he could just disappear for a while and nobody challenged it. He was lucky to get away with this behaviour for so long without being caught out eg an emergency situation arising when his presence would have been expected and needed.

Also I think with regard to some of his creepy comments women are likely to just ignore or think they've done their bit with a sharp put down and basically tolerate it, perhaps feeling it's not report worthy. When someone new arrives they are likely to see it in a different light and be less inclined to ignore it, perhaps.