Do people see centre left parties as more moral?

[ukipperMN]

Hi,

I’m an ex-UKIP member who hasn’t been active in politics since we got brexit done, if I were to join another party and become active in politics again I’d likely join Richard Tice’s Reform Party or possibly the heritage party but I’ve no plans to join either at the moment or become politically active again.

I am watching the debate on self ID with interest but am not playing a part in it, just watching things unfold with interest and had some questions and wanted to hear people’s thoughts.

What I really don’t understand is why so many of the people so against self ID seem to want to only vote for parties that want self ID (lab/Lib/PC/SNP/Green etc). It’s not an accident that all major centre left parties support self ID, self ID is entirely consistent and compatible with the centre left’s ideology/world view. I also read somewhere (don’t know if it’s true) that women are more likely to vote for centre left parties than men are. In fact if only women voted I think we might have a Labour government and self ID would likely be law by now.

I wondered why this is and thought I would put my head above the parapet and ask. Do people (and feminists in particular) tend to see the centre left as the more moral position, the kinder, gentler more compassionate opinion to vote for?

I expect self ID will become law in the U.K. eventually and I think it is likely to become law in Scotland in the next year or so. And I think many feminists opposed to self ID will likely vote for the parties that make it law and vote for them again after it becomes law.

I’ve seen polls where certain policies poll very well but once people find out whose policies they are they go off the policy and say they will never vote for the party proposing the policy regardless. Likewise unpopular policies can become supported if the party proposing them is viewed favourably. It seems to be a moral perception where people see some parties are morally better than others. Would posters agree with that observation?

This is why I think self ID will become law regardless of how popular it is now. People see the parties committed to it as good and will eventually elect them regardless of what they promise to do.

After ww1 and especially Ww2 people were aghast at what nationalism had done to the world. The keywords became co operation, unity, brotherhood of man. Great - racism in particular started to become untenable for most people. Nationalism and ethnic consciousness became associated with the right, for obvious reasons.

But guess what, keeping a lid on tribalism in that way caused tribalism to seep out elsewhere. Now you have identity groups based not on nationalism but on race or sexuality and its transnational. (Internationalism is a left thing, since Workers Of The World, you see it too in the Open Borders advocates)
You don't see union Jack's in polite society but you see plenty of pride flags for example.
And the rhetoric can be every bit as nasty and threatening as the worst c20 jingoism.

We're tribal. Us and them. It brings cohesiveness and belonging which is why its so attractive, and necessary I would say. But when it goes unchecked it brings disaster, like every other human instinct.

I read somewhere a study on the US showed that bigotry based on 'traditional' characteristics such as race and sex has been eclipsed by bigotry based on political opinion. People are less likely to think the other side are misguided but well meaning, but actively malevolent. And it has increased more on the far left side of the spectrum.

I am not talking about brexit I am talking about UKIP and how they got popular.

if you want to credit anyone with brexit then credit Cummings Vote Leave campaign

@1Week

After ww1 and especially Ww2 people were aghast at what nationalism had done to the world. The keywords became co operation, unity, brotherhood of man. Great - racism in particular started to become untenable for most people. Nationalism and ethnic consciousness became associated with the right, for obvious reasons.

But guess what, keeping a lid on tribalism in that way caused tribalism to seep out elsewhere. Now you have identity groups based not on nationalism but on race or sexuality and its transnational. (Internationalism is a left thing, since Workers Of The World, you see it too in the Open Borders advocates)
You don't see union Jack's in polite society but you see plenty of pride flags for example.
And the rhetoric can be every bit as nasty and threatening as the worst c20 jingoism.

We're tribal. Us and them. It brings cohesiveness and belonging which is why its so attractive, and necessary I would say. But when it goes unchecked it brings disaster, like every other human instinct.

I read somewhere a study on the US showed that bigotry based on 'traditional' characteristics such as race and sex has been eclipsed by bigotry based on political opinion. People are less likely to think the other side are misguided but well meaning, but actively malevolent. And it has increased more on the far left side of the spectrum.

We are only tribal because it serves politicians to encourage it, its born of feeling hard done by, that hollow feeling gets channeled and used by politicians.

the way to deal with it is to have no one hard done by, we have more then enough money to give everyone a decent standard of life.

Only tribal because of politics! That's a statement that would require some seriously hefty empirical shenanigans to justify. Is there any evidence, anywhere in history, of people NOT being tribal.

VelvetChairGirl
I think it's naive to think that tribalism is pushed on us by politicians.
It's much much deeper than that. It exists in every known society. From hunter gatherer societies to good natured sporting rivalries between rural villages.
It's our nature to gather in small self reinforcing and mutually assisting groups.
Denying that seems to me to be like the ultra religious claiming that sexuality is not innate, merely the devil's imposition and trying fruitlessly to repress it.
Won't work, there are healthy moderate channels for both impulses. Not saying I have the answer to that, though.

If nothing else that should tell you how this left/ right good/bad divide is a load of nonsense which doesn't cover any nuance in human nature or behaviour.

Totally agree

All are potentially evil when they become ideological and believe they are so right or good their actions are justified.

And this.
It doesn't matter what the topic is - this is always the case.

We are only tribal because it serves politicians to encourage it

🤦🏻‍♀️
It's a fundamental facet of human behaviour & instinct.
It served as a survival function way, way back in our evolution and is an innate part of the human psyche. 'Belonging' underpins a LOT of our emotional well-being; teenagers especially are driven by this instinct.