Where are all the middle aged women who should be transitioning

[IcakethereforeIam]

I'm new here, I'm sorry if this has been covered or if I've got the wrong end of the stick.

I don't understand the apparent lack of curiosity in some quarters at the massive increase in girls wanting to transition. I went to school in the 80s, while my friends and I knew vaguely about sex change it was not something we thought about applying to ourselves. Perhaps we just kept it inside.

Advocates for allowing children to transition (affirmation only? ), think they don't grow out of the desire. Others say over 80% desist (watchful waiting?). I believe the first cohort believe the uptick is down to an increase in awareness of the possibility of treatment. Surely, if that is correct, there should be hundreds or thousands of closeted women around my age wanting to change their sex. Where are they? Has anyone looked for them?

If they aren't there, then why the disconnect.

By middle age most women know only too well how valuable and fragile health is.

What woman of age and experience would risk guzzling male hormones, when we know how poorly a coil can make you feel if it's not quite right for you? When we're making careful assessments of what this year's new research says about the timings, doses, risks and benefits of HRT?

When you're a teenager, side effects like reproductive problems and increased cancer and heart risks are way ahead in a vague not-me future. Middle-aged women know that serious health issues are real and happen all the time to people around us.

@NotBadConsidering

Is barleybadminton saying that there exists a middle age transmen cohort of equal size to the current cohort of teenage girls wanting to transition, but they didn’t present to paediatric gender clinics at the time they we’re teenagers (or they would have been reflected in their stats and we wouldn’t be seeing a dramatic rise), instead they all transitioned successfully in their 20s before they got to middle age, and the evidence for this is an adult gender clinic stats from 10 years ago?

Righty-o.

Certainly of greater size to the tiny number of people presenting to GIDS. Around one in 10,000 young people are referred to gids annually and of those around one in 100,000 have any treatment. The prevalence of middle aged trans men is far higher than that.

You’re comparing incidence and prevalence. They aren’t the same thing.

But what is the prevalence of middle aged transmen? If you could tell us that it would certainly help.

I mean it’s quite a remarkable claim. All those paediatric gender clinics out there who say the huge rise of girls is explained by a better social environment enabling them to present, and barleybadminton is saying that isn’t true, they all just transitioned later. Why don’t the gender clinics know about all these thousands of middle aged females who transitioned years ago?

It’s as though ROGD isn’t real - who’d have thought it. Decades of scientific research, and we never knew. Quite remarkable really.

As a 59 year old lesbian who has lived in the same place and had the same extensive friend network for the last nearly 40 years I have to say I have seen no evidence of Barley's vast cohort of middle aged transmen. So far as i know not one of the lesbians I have known since the mid 80s have transition. Not a single sausage..

transitioned..

@CompleteGinasaur It’s because you have the maturity to realise you’re all perfect as you are - either that or social transphobia.

No, I think you were right the first time..

@NotBadConsidering

You’re comparing incidence and prevalence. They aren’t the same thing.

But what is the prevalence of middle aged transmen? If you could tell us that it would certainly help.

Well no-one really knows for sure but it's certainly higher then the few hundred trans boys who've been referred for treatment in the last decade or so.

The real worry is not that there are too many kids referred to GIDS, but so few given the prevalence of trans adults. It suggests theres a lot of trans kids out there still closeted, no doubt frightened and not getting any support.

Though, seriously, growing up with proper second wave feminism may just have had a small amount to do with our self-acceptance.

(Just a little bit though, we really are practically perfect in every way..)

Seemed like you knew for sure earlier, Barley.

I fear a certain amount of shifting the ground of your argument may be imminent..

@CompleteGinasaur I have no doubt x

and bearing up, definitely x .

@barleybadminton What support would be appropriate for these closeted & frightened trans-kids? And how does one diagnose/identify a trans-kid?

How does one define a transkid, before you go on to diagnose them? I mean, I wouldn't take it on, the consequences of getting it wrong being as catastrophic as they can be..

Sorry,DoubleTweenQueen, I didn't spot the "identify", so crossposted..

Well no-one really knows for sure but it's certainly higher then the few hundred trans boys who've been referred for treatment in the last decade or so.

So you don’t know there’s “loads” then .

The real worry is not that there are too many kids referred to GIDS, but so few given the prevalence of trans adults.

But you can’t tell us the prevalence of trans adults. So how do you know this is a concern?

It suggests theres a lot of trans kids out there still closeted, no doubt frightened and not getting any support.

Pure propaganda. So the children can all bravely present to gender clinics because society now allows them to but adults are too afraid to?

And what are you saying here? You said earlier all the transmen have already transitioned, now you’re saying can’t count them because there all too frightened to transition?

Are you dizzy from all that spinning?

They’re*

@CompleteGinasaur When I was younger, I was into train sets and Action Man, but my younger sister was into baby dolls and Girls World styling head. Makes you think.

@CompleteGinasaur

Sorry,DoubleTweenQueen, I didn't spot the "identify", so crossposted..

Absolutely nothing to apologise for x

@CompleteGinasaur

As a 59 year old lesbian who has lived in the same place and had the same extensive friend network for the last nearly 40 years I have to say I have seen no evidence of Barley's vast cohort of middle aged transmen. So far as i know not one of the lesbians I have known since the mid 80s have transition. Not a single sausage..

And I can’t fathom why they would. They’re women who like women.

Thank you. My sister and I were exactly the same. I remember one Xmas sitting with my Dan Dare Astronaut Kit (it was great, there was a space suit and a communications rig - well, a radio shaped bit of plastic with a notepad stuck to the front, anyway) and my sister loved her crying TinyTears. All her dire predictions about me wanting "boys' toys" came true, funnily enough, but I don't remember her ever mentioning microdosing testosterone.. Thank goodness for that, or God knows where I'd be now, eh? Propping up Barley's (curiously absent) statistical evidence, nodoubt.

Middle aged women don’t transition because the huge surge in young people transitioning is mainly a social contagion driven by social media. There are similar contagions in history and they tend to affect teenage girls for a variety of reasons. And middle aged women are far less susceptible to such contagions.

Transgenderism has many similarities with the rise of ‘multiple personality disorder’ which was almost unknown until a book and programme popularized it. Soon thousands of people were being diagnosed with it, therapists trained, a professional body formed. But it all fell apart when the law suits came in and now MPD, is, again, almost unknown.

This thread by Malcolm Clark makes a fascinating read:-

twitter.com/twisterfilm/status/1478230008732737537?s=21

Lol @barleybadminton you’ve quoted two studies, the first included 56 transmen, and the second (conducted by the head of a US hospital trans surgery group!) included 55.

In 2020, in the USA alone 9985 transmen had gender reassignment surgery (compared to 6368 transwomen).

www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2020/plastic-surgery-statistics-full-report-2020.pdf

Not quite capturing the whole picture there.