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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

French feminists stop reporting on femicide due to accusations of transphobia

38 replies

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 08/01/2022 04:00

The organisation which had been collecting data since 2018 had been under fire from transactivists for not including transwomen-even though no trans women were murdered during that time.
-More harassment of women for reporting on women’s issues - especially when the data does not fit with the narrative that trans women are the most oppressed group.

4w.pub/feminist-collective-suspends-reporting-on-femicides-due-to-claims-of-transphobia/

OP posts:
CheeseMmmm · 08/01/2022 05:22

Stopping this data collection and sharing is progressive HOW?
Right side of history my arse.

99% sure the underlying reason women who do this sort of recording and awareness raising is not actually to do with tw being left out (esp as none murdered partner 6 years so no one to include).
Is that data like this massively exposes the most at risk of assault murder than any other group.

It's harder to push the most oppressed line when things like this just blow a hole right through their claims.

And the pressure here applied to women involved is massive-

'In their thread, #NousToutes went on to say that the sentiment was "oppressive" and "otherwise illegal," noting that "transphobia is not an opinion, but a crime punishable by law."'

Artichokeleaves · 08/01/2022 09:31

Ah. Transactivists demonstrating yet again how they are not only unsupportive of but actively wish to prevent campaigning against femicide (or FGM - or supporting safety of women in prison - or female homosexuality - or accessible labelling of medical services for females - or female accessibility to rape crisis or refuges...)

Anti- female really. Gynephobic. It's alarming how prejudiced they appear to openly be towards biologically female humans. You'd be led to believe by all this political PR they put out that transactivism is incompatible with anyone else having rights or needs, and the only thing about femicide that matters is how it makes less than 1% of males feel that it's not centering them.

Interesting publicity choices there. I wonder what the general public will think.

GoodieMoomin · 08/01/2022 09:49

Monty Python levels of absurdity!

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 08/01/2022 10:34

It’s a very stark example of an area of research benefitting women being closed down through harassment and the spotlight being turned towards the men.
Depressing to think that this is happening all across Europe now.

OP posts:
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 08/01/2022 10:41

@GoodieMoomin

Monty Python levels of absurdity!
Yes! I had to read some parts of that twice to work out who was saying what.

Ludicrous.

Goatsaregreat · 08/01/2022 10:48

It's predictable and appalling but I can't see it's any different here to be frank. That's what all the trans lobby groups have been doing - mangling language, definitions and data with the specific aim of disguising the avalanche of crimes against women that are committed and using fear tactics to silence women speaking out. The capture of the MoJ is particularly awful as it hides some very worrying trends that are starting to emerge.
The only difference in the UK is that women (and now many men) see right through this and are fighting back in massive numbers

TheWeeDonkey · 08/01/2022 11:04

Stopping this data collection and sharing is progressive HOW?

Well its progressing the rights of men to be violent towards women because it has now become a men's rights movement.

See, they could focus on. I don't know supporting trans people who are in violent or abusive situations. Found refuges or helplines for trans people, help trans people understand their employment / housing rights. Help trans people access effective mental health support, fund research to make transition safer and have better outcomes, you know something lots of people could get behind. but that takes time and energy and its not much fun.

Much better to shut down everything those uppity women have been working for over years and decades and put them back in their place.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 08/01/2022 11:22

But the data collection and publishing has not stopped here.

Yes Jess Philips has been challenged in the same way for reading out KIS's list without including transwomen, which was then soundly rebuffed, which will at least provide an answer for the non captured reader.

The aggression is the same, the response is not.

chipsinonehandpieinother · 08/01/2022 11:35

Yes, but when Julia Long asked Jess 'how she knew the women are her list were women, she just quipped, ' well they are dead so I can't ask them.'

But its a serious question. If you think TWAW, literally, they should be on the list. We don't have them on the list as its clear the violence they face has different causes and roots from those that women have, and we need to be able to accurately analyse causes to develop effective policy solutions.

But Jess sidestepped a serious point rather than address the inconsistencies in her position. And that's a problem.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 08/01/2022 11:38

Jess may have. KIS doesn't.

And I won't shoot the messenger, no matter how much they don't say everything I want them to.

As I said, the situation here is different. Under siege by TRAs and women alike, but different.

GoodieMoomin · 08/01/2022 11:50

@chipsinonehandpieinother they're not on the list because there aren't any!

Dinosaurwoman · 08/01/2022 12:01

How can we support our French sisters?

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 08/01/2022 12:10

@Artichokeleaves

Ah. Transactivists demonstrating yet again how they are not only unsupportive of but actively wish to prevent campaigning against femicide (or FGM - or supporting safety of women in prison - or female homosexuality - or accessible labelling of medical services for females - or female accessibility to rape crisis or refuges...)

Anti- female really. Gynephobic. It's alarming how prejudiced they appear to openly be towards biologically female humans. You'd be led to believe by all this political PR they put out that transactivism is incompatible with anyone else having rights or needs, and the only thing about femicide that matters is how it makes less than 1% of males feel that it's not centering them.

Interesting publicity choices there. I wonder what the general public will think.

Absolutely this. Once again, this movement is in and of itself a form of structural abuse of women and girls (female people) by… male people.

It’s just another facet of the oldest form of oppression there is.

Silencing women’s voices on this, constraining the language we use, is on a par with any authoritarian, oppressive regime silencing its dissidents. In fact, what is happening here, now, is as if western democracies were doing the work of those authoritarian, oppressive regimes for them.

Like western democracies and human rights movements actively silencing the voices of and delegitimising black anti apartheid campaigners back when SA was still under white rule.

Or western democracies and human rights movements actively silencing the voices of and delegitimising women speaking out against the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Or western democracies and human rights movements silencing the voices of and delegitimising gay people fighting for their rights in Russia or Iran.

This is where we are now. This is what we’re up against. And the success of TRA propaganda (founded as it is on generations of male privilege, political power and wealth, abetted by all the male-prioritising social structures of patriarchy, including obedient women) is that women speaking up against it are vilified, demonised and suppressed by the very people, organisations and structures that should be supporting us.

In terms of the relational aspects here, the representation of which side holds the power and is harming the other (although clearly not in terms of the actual practices), it’s as if the great and good were saying the black anti apartheid campaigners were the bad guys and the white apartheid government were their victim.

As if they were saying the women of Afghanistan were the bad guys and the Taliban were their victim.

As if they were saying that gay people in Russia and Iran were the bad guys and their respective governments their victims.

This is what is going on here. We have to shift the focus to the true nature of the power dynamics at play here, the extent of the sleight of hand, the fact that this is oppression, abuse. Of us.

Abuse of female people by male people. Deprivation of the rights of female people in order to benefit male people. Dehumanising of female people to supra-humanise male people.

IT’S THE SAME OLD OPPRESSION OF FEMALE PEOPLE BY MALE PEOPLE AS ALWAYS BUT WE’RE THE BAD GUYS?!

KittenKong · 08/01/2022 13:04

They aren’t feminists then.

MarshmallowSwede · 08/01/2022 13:29

What is the point of feminism right now? How is it benefiting women at all?

It all seems that it is only about the feelings of men and doing everything to make their life easier and make it so we can’t do to say anything that might in any way shape or form help us, protect us or promote our interests.

So seriously.. who is feminism for now?

NitroNine · 08/01/2022 13:35

TBH if I were a TW in France I’d be worried about this stated intent, because the only way to achieve the goal is to get a load of [ex-]partners of trans women to bump them off Confused

BordelDeMerde · 08/01/2022 13:39

Just to say that the collection of data hasn't stopped. The feminist collective that collects the data are still doing so and sharing on their twitter and anywhere else they can. @feminicidesfr is their twitter handle and I'm sure they'd appreciate a solidarity-follow.

NousToutes have stopped sharing it because they're a bunch of sycophantic twats. They revealed themselves to be problematic before this though.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 08/01/2022 13:41

Brilliant news. And sounds far more likely, sensible than the piece in the OP did 🙂

DisgustedofManchester · 08/01/2022 13:44

A trans woman was murdered in 2018 in Paris. If they started in 2018 then that assumes they must be using 2017 or earlier figures as their first so to say none have ben murdered is a blatent lie.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 08/01/2022 13:54

Given you don't know what dates are being used and haven't said if the transwomen was a victim of domestic violence what are you basing your verdict on?

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 08/01/2022 14:16

Yes, the French list is just for women murdered by current or former partners, I believe.

BordelDeMerde · 08/01/2022 14:28

@DisgustedofManchester

A trans woman was murdered in 2018 in Paris. If they started in 2018 then that assumes they must be using 2017 or earlier figures as their first so to say none have ben murdered is a blatent lie.
The trans woman murdered in Paris in 2017 was a prostitute. The collective only count victims of domestic violence (by a partner or ex). They don't count prostitutes murdered by people other than their partner or ex, whether the prostitute is a woman or a trans woman.
BordelDeMerde · 08/01/2022 14:29

*2018, sorry

StopStartStop · 08/01/2022 14:58

I suppose they can count who they like... but surely murdered women who were prostitutes are women. Who is counting them?

As for transwomen, they need counting. Separately. And the statistics made available for scrutiny.

BordelDeMerde · 08/01/2022 15:11

If a prostitute is murdered by their current or ex partner, they're counted. If they're murdered by a gang of thieves, as was the case for the trans woman mentioned above, then they're not.
Their intention is to highlight domestic abuse.

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