French feminists stop reporting on femicide due to accusations of transphobia

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

The organisation which had been collecting data since 2018 had been under fire from transactivists for not including transwomen-even though no trans women were murdered during that time.
-More harassment of women for reporting on women’s issues - especially when the data does not fit with the narrative that trans women are the most oppressed group.

4w.pub/feminist-collective-suspends-reporting-on-femicides-due-to-claims-of-transphobia/

As for transwomen, they need counting. Separately. And the statistics made available for scrutiny.

There is nothing stopping a trans right charity from doing so, heck if certain posters spent less time criticising the list and compiling their own, it would be sorted.

Spot on, Whitefire. I'm beyond fed up with all those people who want others to change what they are doing to suit the whims of lazy arses who can't be bothered to do anything themselves.

Want something doing? Do it yourself. Especially if you get ££££ in government funding.

Four women have been murdered in France so far this year.

(I listen to French radio on the Radios France app and it was widely reported).

The trans woman murdered in Paris in 2017 was a prostitute. The collective only count victims of domestic violence (by a partner or ex). They don't count prostitutes murdered by people other than their partner or ex, whether the prostitute is a woman or a trans woman.

I’m sure Disgusted is very grateful to us for the correction, just hasn’t had time to get around to expressing that on here.

Probably too busy icing a cake. Or possibly trying to get some uppity women sent to the gulag. Something delightful and chock full of goddess energy, anyway!

@BordelDeMerde

If a prostitute is murdered by their current or ex partner, they're counted. If they're murdered by a gang of thieves, as was the case for the trans woman mentioned above, then they're not. Their intention is to highlight domestic abuse.

Thank you for the clarification.

I was part of NousToutes until earlier this week and even though I was still following them on social media, I have not been active since a few months as I started to disagree with some aspects of the organization.

I am really angry because today a woman and her 2-years old child were killed and NousToutes did not speak about that information at all. They could have done it without referring at #feminicidesfr by quoting a newspaper article, but nothing has been done. This really shows their priority. Media (at leat radios) have reported this death but NousToutes has a very strong link with the media in general and without NousToutes, these figures are not reported as much as they should be.

#feminicidesfr is a group of a handful of women who are counting feminicides in the context of domestic violence only (killed by their partner or ex). It is their choice and I admire their work as they look at all the news articles published daily to find this information. They are doing this on their free time, without any publicity. They have apparently received abuse since a long time. It is worth noting that they do count transwomen in their figures. They mention that 3 transwomen were killed last year, but not in the context of domestic violence. This number seems correct as it is the same number than the 'official' figures.

NousToutes is organinzing a zoom call for its members tomorrow to 'discuss' their decision. I don't know if I have the strength to attend as I already know how the 'discussion' is going to be but I would really like to tell them how I feel let down as a woman.

I hope you attend. I heard the news about the mother and toddler on French radio today - pleased that France Inter frequently (sad it has to be frequently) comment on the death of a woman in the context of domestic violence femicide. The killings this year (already) have been so horrific.

@StopStartStop

I suppose they can count who they like... but surely murdered women who were prostitutes are women. Who is counting them?

As for transwomen, they need counting. Separately. And the statistics made available for scrutiny.

Seriously?

Do you have any idea how difficult and time consuming it is to build a set of data for women (assume includes girls) murdered by a man who had a specific relationship to her?

That's not segmentation the police, DOJ etc carry out

To obtain it you need to find it yourself. From scratch.

KIS might say on web but my total guess would be sifting through masses of primary info, news reports, court docs, that sort of thing. For the whole country for a year.

May i humbly suggest that if a woman or women's org (or anyone really, happy for a man with focus on MVAWG where murderer is linked to victim/s in a specific way. Then they are doing an important thing and should be left to get on with it?
KIS is one person! Maybe she has help now, certainly it was sole effort for however long at start.

Rather than being TOLD that X wants this data and Y wants that data and Z wants something else and if she's doing for the specific situation she is passionate about then why the fuck isn't she doing this and that as well!

And further may I tentatively suggest that if YOU are concerned about statistics around women (what about men? Girls boys?) that men pay for sexual contact being murdered.

Then follow KIS example and DO IT YOURSELF.

@MarshmallowSwede

What is the point of feminism right now? How is it benefiting women at all?

It all seems that it is only about the feelings of men and doing everything to make their life easier and make it so we can’t do to say anything that might in any way shape or form help us, protect us or promote our interests.

So seriously.. who is feminism for now?

Try googling women's rights groups around the world and take your pick.

If you believe that women who care about women and girls have stopped giving a shit then you're talking out of your hat.

We've never got anything without fighting tooth and nail often for years.
And mostly we don't get far/anywhere at all.

Why? Because women and girls are a niche issue, not important. Occasional crumb might stop their irrational blitherings.

And of course anything and everyone we have won can be and is taken away in the blink of an eye.

Try googling I mean where to start?
Afghanistan under previous and current Taliban rule.
Cultural Revolution.
USA States and abortion.
Poland and abortion.
Russia and DV.

There's a few to get your teeth into.

Let me know what you think once better informed.

The organisation which had been collecting data since 2018 had been under fire from transactivists for not including transwomen -- even though no transwomen were murdered during that time.

That means the organisation is doing what transactivists are always ordering us to do -- including transwomen in the women's figures as if they were women. Yet still they complain.

So what are they demanding? That NousToutes make up a few murders?

I strongly suspect that tw have to be included in women data just because.

And that data that had female, and separate TW must not happen.

The reason given would be TWAW, it's othering etc.

The actual reason would be because those stats would illustrate starkly information that must not even exist.

Namely that look all these female people murdered.

TW? Oh zero again for this specific dataset.

And the awful thing is that pushing (and often succeeding) in obfuscating in data what's going on for female population and also trans population.

They throw away any reliable, large sample datasets that would be of huge value for understanding so many things about trans population.

I can't think of any other movement for a group who are struggling etc that aren't very very keen to get as much data as possible on the people they exist to improve things for.

Data = everything. Understanding prioritising things needed, spotting any outliers who having particularly bad time. Or are doing better- how, why? Let's look into it could be really important.

The only conclusion is data is not wanted, mustnt be available. Why?
Again. Can only be because high risk will not present picture wanted, also could well lose control of narrative.

Sounds paranoid.

But this no data insistence is totally incomprehensible, and actively works against helping the group they exist for.

[quote Xoxoxoxoxoxox]The organisation which had been collecting data since 2018 had been under fire from transactivists for not including transwomen-even though no trans women were murdered during that time.
-More harassment of women for reporting on women’s issues - especially when the data does not fit with the narrative that trans women are the most oppressed group.

4w.pub/feminist-collective-suspends-reporting-on-femicides-due-to-claims-of-transphobia/[/quote]
They dont half love shooting themselves in the foot dont they, they are mad.

not only are they increasingly showing the world what fascist they are, they are also highlighting that they are not the most marginalised victims in society far from it, just a bunch of bullies trying to erase women TRAliban.

next time any MRA starts shouting about trying to deny trans peoples existence or whatever, throw it right back at them, they are trying to deny womens existence, and we have the proof everywhere.

I strongly suspect that tw have to be included in women data just because. And that data that had female, and separate TW must not happen.

This is more and more what it's coming down to. A refusal on the part of a more privileged, powerful group of males to countenance permitting female people anything at all of their own, any definition, medical care, language, needed resources and facilities and services and spaces, because the mere existence of something for females that TW are not part of is too hurtful to male feelings.

You know what? Get over it.

Male feelings are not a justifiable reason. TW needs are being met just fine, erasing females in the process is not acceptable or ok. It's just rampant sexism and oppression.