Spectator transwoman journalist

[Gingerbreadrules]

www.spectator.co.uk/article/harry-potter-and-the-strange-absence-of-j-k-rowling

I'm interested in the author of this article and her point of view. I haven't come across Debbie Hayton before but she seems to be a transwoman who accepts that she remains biologically male, and that trans rights should not take away women's rights. I have literally never come across this before (and I am heartened by it). She describes herself as a transwoman (and also in other places, a transexual, which I thought was not allowed terminology these days).

Virtually none

Yet we are assured by the frequent activist posters that actually, more are like DH than not. It is only the loud, agenda pushing activists that would disagree with Debbie.

I’d like to know, which is it, robin? Is DH the rare person that understands that they are male and remain male despite medical transition.

Or is DH in the majority of transitioned males that all these posters are assuring women their nice mates are like? The one’s they say feminists are simply attributing activist’s false agendas to?

Because it can’t be both, surely?

I guess we can now counter those allies trying to stop the discussions being had. That Robin has told us that those understanding that transitioned males remain male are rare and there are Virtually none of them.

Please do correct my interpretation of your plopped down post.

@MiladyBerserko

Yes I'd like to know too. Shall we ask India W on here too and the three of you can have a nice chat?

Not fussed about india rocking up but yeah, I’m interested in robins answer

(Interested may be too strong a word)

@Scraggythang

The ‘trans umbrella’ is pretty extensive… yet you can still be the wrong kind of trans? Amazing.

Remember that a transwoman was called "transphobic" by someone who is not trans, because they expressed moderate views similar to Debbie's.

It's a bit like white people telling black people what they should be offended by.

Robin has told us that those understanding that transitioned males remain male are rare and there are Virtually none of them.

Just to add to this, that the OP also mentioned that Debbie said that trans rights should not take away women's rights.

So if I have a understood Robin's post correctly, Robin believes that most transwomen think that they have actually changed sex and that trans rights should involve the removal of women's rights. Is that really what you think Robin?

@MiladyBerserko

Yes I'd like to know too. Shall we ask India W on here too and the three of you can have a nice chat?

I'd vote for a new board "Transexualnet" where they can all play together.

MrBIobby
Oh my god how did you get that username and it wasn't already taken

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/trans-people-who-dont-hate-women

Behold! A whole list of ‘not proper’ trans people!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6764763/Britains-transgender-hate-crime-trial-halted-one-day.html

Yes, a woman who works for Mermaids took a transwoman to court to try and have him (Miranda's choice of pronoun, mods) convicted of transphobic hate crime.

@Linguini

MrBIobby Oh my god how did you get that username and it wasn't already taken

I'd love India to rock up in this thread. I slightly overbought ds1's regulation popcorn, before Christmas.

Give us a twirl, Mr Blobby!

Ok. Since you asked nicely

Robin! I asked you a question on the last thread you were on, but you must not have seen it.

Why did you make this post about Maya Forstater?

@RobinMoiraWhite. Virtually none.

Oh come on. I've never met a trans person IRL who holds the hard line Genderist position about women's sports, women's prisons or basic biology.

You can't really think this is some simple issue with only evil transphobes believing as Debbie does and everyone who thinks TWAW being lovely?

It's the stupidity and malice of so many who support self ID which is driving a lot of transphobia.

RMW seems to hold a grudge againt MF because MF was validated by a court decision. IW is deluded by the love-in that is Piers Morgan. IW no more 'passes' than my cat. RMW is in a similar situation, they cannot bear the fact that Debbie Hayton tells the truth, Debbie is a transwoman but acknowledges that she still is male biologically. For some outlandish reason IW seems to think she has a cervix, but then the scientific ignoramuses amongst us may still believe the sun orbits the earth.

Hi @DebbieInBirmingham if you are still here

I was struck by your comment "I am open to persuasion - I've changed my mind on issues in the past and may do so again on the future" and I just wanted to say, I think this is a really healthy way for everyone to think and debate. I've noticed a few famous debaters say something along those lines recently.

We should all be free to debate and support old and new issues / constructive ideas, rather than be always about making 'allies' (and thus, 'enemies(?)', of actual people ). Even when we know we may never change our mind on an issue.

I believe every person should always be free to change their mind on all sorts of issues as that is what is debate is useful for, without any person's 'followers/allies' then turning on them, for not forever sticking to one view.

On Twitter people always seem to take for granted that a person's view is forever. Respect, to all those who intelligently debate.

Hi @DebbieInBirmingham, I don’t want to derail the thread but can I just say I thought you did a stellar job debating James Max the other day. It’s so refreshing to hear a TW speak up for biological reality x

I'm often asked, "how many trans people think the same way as you, Debbie?"

The glib answer is none - I have my own views that are unique to me and everyone else's thoughts are going to be at least slightly different.

But in real life there are a range of views that tend not to be apparent on social media. Some have no interest in taking their views online, while others are unwilling to speak out because they see what happens to those who do. But even among those of us who speak out I find social media imposes orthodoxies on us according to the group we are in. It is safer to conform to the views of the group than stand aside from it and say things like, "I've been thinking, and I don't think that's right."

But I'd say the disquiet among trans people about gender identity ideology is rather more common than you would gather from Twitter.

Virtually none.

Which is a patent lie. There have been a number of transwomen posters here over the years. Debbie is not the only one who holds those views.

Many posters here have freiends who are trans who also hold those views.

Robin has a history here of being economical with the truth, of twisting the truth, including the EA2010, to meet their ideological needs.

As usual, it won't wash!

I would like to hear Robin clarify that post. And to correct my interpretation.

Because I am forever tired of hearing ‘the majority’ don’t agree, yet being assured that ‘yes they do’, while in the same breathe being gaslighted about how the ‘majority’ of women are fully supportive of males with penises being able to access female single sex spaces.

So, I think someone who prides themselves on being so articulate about these issues (they speak on women’s panels about this very topic, after all) should be able to come and clarify their plopped down post.

They know very well that readers will judge their credibility on it. So there is quite a bit at stake here.

@WheresMyAlex

Hi *@DebbieInBirmingham*, I don’t want to derail the thread but can I just say I thought you did a stellar job debating James Max the other day. It’s so refreshing to hear a TW speak up for biological reality x

And yet so sad that nobody said the same about KJK. We had to wait for a man to repeat much of what she said before many here would speak up uncritically.

JKJ responses: I don't agree with all she says but...

DH responses: Oooh Debbie you were stellar...

Sometimes we women are our own worst enemies!

Ooh -fan girl here @DebbieInBirmingham - are you recently on the Triggernometry podcast? Was very refreshing -thanks

I hear you Hoarding.

I would suggest it has stemmed from the number of times women have had to fight the crap laid down in attempts to discredit feminist speakers. The ‘right wing’ trope, the ‘racist’ trope. The [insert the latest claim] trope.

It has formed a reactive pattern and one I absolutely agree needs to stop. It does create a toxic tribal nature to the discussions that need to be had.