If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

@ArabellaScott

Oh, ffs. I could get so angry on behalf of anyone with a DSD who has their body used to advance ridiculous, demeaning and offensive fucking astrology-based 'science'.

No, it's not a third sex, you utter cretins.

Where is the like flag?

@ArabellaScott

Oh, ffs. I could get so angry on behalf of anyone with a DSD who has their body used to advance ridiculous, demeaning and offensive fucking astrology-based 'science'.

No, it's not a third sex, you utter cretins.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

"and complete unwillingness to engage in any other debate other than womanhood is only open to AFAB"

It is only "open" to female people as that is what "woman" means.

It isn't 'open to' people for goodness sake, it either is or it isn't.

Female people's physical reality isn't a reward or a promised land you can get to, it isn't something that can be gained or achieved, it isn't a club or a piece of land where the gatekeeping rules can be fought to overcome. It just is. This is beyond offensive. Other people's physical realities are not games or resources that other people can try to win off them.

Other people's physical realities are not games or resources that other people can try to win off them.

On another thread a newspaper reports how boys and young men are learning to 'trade' pictures of women and girls.

and complete unwillingness to engage in any other debate other than womanhood is only open to AFAB

and complete unwillingness to engage in any other debate other than being disabled is only open to people with a disability

It's desperate reality denying, highly offensive, risible jibber jabber.

@Datun

and complete unwillingness to engage in any other debate other than womanhood is only open to AFAB

and complete unwillingness to engage in any other debate other than being disabled is only open to people with a disability

It's desperate reality denying, highly offensive, risible jibber jabber.

As a disabled person I do find this incredibly offensive, you're right. No amount of effort is going to make me able bodied. No identifying is going to do it. Harassing able bodied people to change their language and stop gatekeeping able bodied as a club I want to be part of is not going to change the reality of my body. My mental health is based on accepting and living with that reality, which is often bloody difficult, but is a job I have to do because there isn't another choice. Other people cannot create a different reality for me.

Indeed Artichokeleaves. And it's suggesting that you are gatekeeping disability and not allowing the able bodied into your select club!

Identify into a marginalised group is the bloody height of privilege.

@RVN123

"It's time to take off the blinders and recognize and embrace the reality of a third sex - intersex, a diverse biological spectrum between male and female. The Spectrum of Sex: The Science of Male, Female, and Intersex helps us to do just that by integrating science and social, cultural and linguistic analysis of binary and non-binary sex."

Who knew? There's a THIRD sex! And it IS a spectrum after all! ..........Oh Aunty Em, there's NO place like HOME! (Music crashes and credits roll)..........

There one thing wrong with that.

Intesex is not a third sex. Still male or female.

Sorry not sorry

and complete unwillingness to engage in any other debate other than womanhood is only open to AFAB"

That's right. Because it is only open to born women. It's been debated numerous times. The truth remains the same.

Of course they are male, if you think having surgey and drugs changes anything then your opening a whole can of worms.

lets look at cryptids for example are we now to declare that those Victorian taxidermies of mermaids etc where they have stitched a monkey and a fish together are real mermaids because of a unnatural intervention? scientists made a fake cerberus that lived quite sometime by sewing a dogs head onto another dogs body so it had two functioning heads, does that make cerberus real?.

plenty of women have FGM and boobs removed by surgery, doesnt mean they are not women anymore, just as men who've had their testicles removed due to cancer are still men.

the hormones and drugs are to prevent the body reverting to its natural state, its all a fight against nature, without those superficial medical interventions they would just be a man in a dress.

so basically transness isnt about physical reality at all, its about what you say you are, as shown by the GRA you dont have to have any hormones, surgery or anything to claim to be the opposite sex, you just have to live as them for 2 years, but then what does living as them mean?, how does my life differ from a man in any way other then fashion and the constraints society puts on me for being a woman, which coincidentally includes fashion, the only part of a womans life or mans that is not based on societal structure is the physical functions of producing eggs or sperm and all tho we can now render ourselves sterile via medical intervention we are not clown fish, we can not change our reproductive function only halt it, . so opting into constraints makes you a woman? the constraints your sex imposes on womens lives to make them different to man and the opportunities and freedoms men have?, how very convenient to have that choice, that's certainly a privileged as is choosing sterility.

also proves the point that trans are not equal, the man to woman has the most privilege and is opting into the roll of the oppressed at will.

the woman to man has less privilege they are trying to opt out of oppression into the dominant role.

the NB is trying to opt out of the roles but will always be treated according to their sex as observed from their physiology.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

embrace the reality of a third sex - intersex, a diverse biological spectrum between male and female. How fucking insulting is that?

I mean, ah come ON!!! What fuckwit thought any of that would be in any way appropriate, meaningful, scientific..... FFS!

The conflation of intersex and trans is a key part of the TRA playbook.

You ain't just Whistlin' Dixie @simmonslulu

How many times have various DSD groups and individuals said that, all across social media?

FFS!

Yes. Politicising other's bodies to progress activist beliefs has been well used in the past on this forum.

So, OP. Are you a member of Stonewall?

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

You ain't just Whistlin' Dixie *@simmonslulu*

How many times have various DSD groups and individuals said that, all across social media?

FFS!

'Whistling Dixie' love it!

@Helleofabore

Yes. Politicising other's bodies to progress activist beliefs has been well used in the past on this forum.

So, OP. Are you a member of Stonewall?

Eh? Did the OP say anything that would make you think that or are you doing the misattribution thing now?

yes... that was a question to Simmonslulu

I AM misattributing. And probably cross threading too...

Sorry OP.

My question about membership of Stonewall is because I would love to know what the general feeling about the direction they have taken is at the moment.

Posting in the short breaks at work has meant my attention is split. I should probably stop trying to do both....

Again, apologies OP.

This tweet came up again today, as a reminder why some (I expect not many, but that fact even one person tweet this means there is likely more thinking this) males want uterus transplants.

Probably should come with a content warning .

twitter.com/ibtissamebetty/status/1479199628587413512?s=21

[quote Helleofabore]This tweet came up again today, as a reminder why some (I expect not many, but that fact even one person tweet this means there is likely more thinking this) males want uterus transplants.

Probably should come with a content warning .

twitter.com/ibtissamebetty/status/1479199628587413512?s=21[/quote]
Here's Professor Grace Lavery of Berkeley tweeting something very similar.

Text for people with screenreaders

Tweet 1: ^Just realized: someone alive today will become the first trans woman to get an abortion.

Well, this has gone off in many directions!

It's such a confusing time.

I tremble at the erasure of terms like mother and ability to confidently say women having periods and so on, but equally fear that my DD thinks I'm on the wrong side of history as she tells me AGAIN how trans is the most oppressed minority and I don't understand.

Not sure where this is all heading. Will be so glad to be out of the workplace soon.

Ugh PurgatoryOfPotholes, that link. They're fetishising abortion now? And calling women who object 'anti abortion'.

It truly is vile.

Thanks for reminding me that Lavery has also said it. purgatory They have said so many things that are problematic that they blend into one another.

So not just one transitioned male then. I guess it is like fetishising periods, without a thought of the pain, emotional hormonal upheaval, embarrassment and humiliation that periods cause some women. (And we have had female posters declare they had no idea other women experienced extreme pain, flooding etc because their periods were always light and nothing to them )

There is much to unpick about the mindset of those males who have some understanding of the pain involved in these issues (physical and emotional) and desire that pain for themselves.

But I won’t say anything as it will mean deletion.

my DD thinks I'm on the wrong side of history as she tells me AGAIN how trans is the most oppressed minority and I don't understand.

Ask her explain how they are most opressed and to show you some kind of further reading that has made her so sure. Depending how old she is of course.

Ask her about how trans people are more marginalised than those women in jail, or those that have been abused and had to leave with nothing - no job, little skill due to having children, and mouths to feed. Or women and girls in certain religions.

I don’t let that ‘wrong side of history’ ever worry me. I have seen terrible things that have been allowed to happen by those insisting they are righteous. If they were as righteous as they believed, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

‘Right side of history’ is a mantra just like any other.

And mantras like this are devised to spread propaganda.

"Right side of history" is a tool used to silence debate and opinion. It is, in truth, used to oppress anyone who disagrees with the phrase user. It's not a good thing, your daughter needs to use the brain she was given and discuss, provide evidence and well thought out argument like an adult. Toddler tantrums aren't acceptable in anyone but toddlers.