Review of HP reunion in The Guardian…they just can’t help themselves

[OhDear2200]

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/jan/01/harry-potter-20th-anniversary-return-to-hogwarts-review-perilously-close-to-emetic

I guess they at least note her absence. But can’t help say ‘widely considered as transphobic’. Just why? Why say anything.

Lovelyricepudding - Where are you getting that from? I haven't said that in the slightest, nor believe it.

Notbad - Again, the transphobia is there in their opinion, much the same as the transphobia is not there in others opinion. Having read some of the insightful posts that are "against" JKR (because they do exist), as well as having read insightful posts that are "with" JKR, I can see what both sides are saying and that both sides believe their opinions are valid/correct.

I take it then that you have not actually read a word JKR has written on this? Your arguments are totally disingenious.

I didn't watch it on the grounds that JKR had been banned.

"It's what she said"

"Alright then, it's not what she said, it's the way that she said it"

"Fine, it's not the way she said it, it's the fact that she said anything at all"

"Well, it's not so much that she said something, as what she didn't say"

Etc etc etc

Lovelyricepudding - I have. I'm not making any type of argument against JKR and saying she's transphobic. I spoke about the actors in the cast and how both sides of the argument have extremists, and how I've seen insightful posts from both sides. I've also spoken about how it will be very difficult to sufficiently explain your views to someone of the other camp, as the two sides have different values and wont "get" what the other person is saying as they fundamentally dont agree.

@Blackbird1234

Notbad - Again, the transphobia is there in their opinion, much the same as the transphobia is not there in others opinion. Having read some of the insightful posts that are "against" JKR (because they do exist), as well as having read insightful posts that are "with" JKR, I can see what both sides are saying and that both sides believe their opinions are valid/correct.

No, they don’t exist. There are no insightful posts against her.

But the difference is one side is condemning a woman as a bigot and threatening her with death and rape, the other side is saying none of what she’s said is worthy of that. So it needs to be an extremely insightful opinion that validates the idea that she is in fact a bigot and it’s worth considering that to be true, and it needs to be an extremely insightful opinion to validate the idea that she deserves those awful threats .

@CrispAndFrosty

"It's what she said"

"Alright then, it's not what she said, it's the way that she said it"

"Fine, it's not the way she said it, it's the fact that she said anything at all"

"Well, it's not so much that she said something, as what she didn't say"

Etc etc etc

Exactly, perfect. This is the level of insight we’ve seen. I can’t see how anyone can take this level of argument against her as insightful.

"And in Pride Month too!"

Notbad- you're kind of proving my point. You don't deem them insightful, therefore no one in the history of mankind has ever succeeded in writing an insightful post against JKR. It's all matter of opinion and even if someone did come along and say everything you would hope to see in an "insightful" post against JKR, chances are you wouldn't deem it insightful (again, general you, not specifically you as a person).
Some people on one side have sent death threats etc and some think its absolutely fine and warranted to do so, but plenty of others on that same side think its abhorrent. That goes for both sides. No one "sane" likes extremists speaking on behalf of the movement they're passionate about and I've seen extremism from both sides over the past couple of years.

even if someone did come along and say everything you would hope to see in an "insightful" post against JKR ...
Have you actually provided any proof yet, given a link to an actual piece. Or are you waffling?

@Blackbird1234

Notbad- you're kind of proving my point. You don't deem them insightful, therefore no one in the history of mankind has ever succeeded in writing an insightful post against JKR. It's all matter of opinion and even if someone did come along and say everything you would hope to see in an "insightful" post against JKR, chances are you wouldn't deem it insightful (again, general you, not specifically you as a person). Some people on one side have sent death threats etc and some think its absolutely fine and warranted to do so, but plenty of others on that same side think its abhorrent. That goes for both sides. No one "sane" likes extremists speaking on behalf of the movement they're passionate about and I've seen extremism from both sides over the past couple of years.

therefore no one in the history of mankind has ever succeeded in writing an insightful post against JKR

So where is one?

chances are you wouldn't deem it insightful (again, general you, not specifically you as a person).

But this isn’t true. I and everyone else have been desperate for someone to offer something. I would dismiss the ideas offered if I didn’t agree with it, but I wouldn’t dismiss it if it was a genuine effort. But there hasn’t been any.

but plenty of others on that same side think its abhorrent.

I haven’t seen many trans activists condemn the abuse at all. Maybe one or two of the ones who believe in biological reality, like Rose of Dawn. Who was then abused for defending her from abuse.

Senua - I don't consider myself to be on either "side" of this entire thing, so I don't have a browser page open on my computer containing every single link, article, tweet or comment I've come across. Nor do I remember the usernames of the many people whose words I've found insightful on either side. I am not here advocating that JKR is or isn't transphobic, my point is solely that there will not be "proof" deemed "good enough" on either side as it all depends on peoples own opinions, their values, how they read it, etc.

Notbad - My above post to Senua is relevant to your first question.
You say there hasn't been any, yet I have seen plenty from both sides, just as I have seen plenty of abhorrent death threats from the extremists on both sides. We already know that our social media shows us what we want to see, so it doesn't surprise me that someone who stands with JKR hasn't seen any of it. I have, and when I come across it again (as I haven't saved it) I will be happy to post it, but I can't make it magically appear whilst on my phone away from home. I believe that you haven't seen any of it, I'm simply saying that I have.

You say there hasn't been any, yet I have seen plenty from both sides

I’d like to see one. Just one.

just as I have seen plenty of abhorrent death threats from the extremists on both sides.

This is just a lie and I don’t believe you are posting in good faith now. Who on the side of those supporting JKR has sent death threats and who were they aimed at? Compared to this:

medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d

Notbad - Then allow me some time to see if I can find the ones I have already seen.
It isn't a lie. I do not commend death threats in ANY case, dont get me wrong. I think its terrible of either side sending them and doesn't help the cause in the slightest. I can assure you I'm posting in good faith, I have absolutely zero vendetta out on JKR, I simply find the conversation really interesting and enjoy speaking to people about it on occasion. I'm sorry if you think I'm not posting in good faith.

@Blackbird1234

Notbad - Then allow me some time to see if I can find the ones I have already seen. It isn't a lie. I do not commend death threats in ANY case, dont get me wrong. I think its terrible of either side sending them and doesn't help the cause in the slightest. I can assure you I'm posting in good faith, I have absolutely zero vendetta out on JKR, I simply find the conversation really interesting and enjoy speaking to people about it on occasion. I'm sorry if you think I'm not posting in good faith.

Following for the death threats from both sides.

If there were plenty, I’m sure a Twitter trans activist would have collated them in a collage similar to the one I’ve posted above, because there is no way they would let such threats go without being used as valuable evidence of the “hate” she apparently generates. Don’t you think it’s funny that no such page exists from JKR supporters’ tweets?

There isn’t even one person in conflict to JKR to say that her supporters have been abusing someone in some way. An entire faction of Twitter has aimed their vitriol at one woman. And you’re saying there’s an equivalent? Even if you find one tweet from one person who purports to support JKR that is abusive towards one person who purports to oppose JKR’s views, there is no possible way that equates to “plenty from both sides”.

What has happened to JKR in terms of orchestrated abuse is a violent form of extremism, designed to terrorise one single individual. There is not remote anything in the same league as that coming from the “other” side.

Shedmistress - I'm not here to provide proof for other peoples arguments, for a side that I'm not even on. I'm happy to post some of the insightful posts I've seen against JKR, once I find them. But long lost tweets and comments that go back years by random people I dont know personally on at least 7 different platforms, arent something that I have the ability to find again. I have seen them, believe me or dont believe me, if/when I come across them again I will post, but i don't have the ability to go back over everything I've seen on my phone and my computer and my tablet over the past 3 years.

Notbad - I stand by my point that there is extremism coming from both sides, as there is with every topic in the world. My personal opinion is that an extremist who feels it's ok to send death threats has other motives and doesnt have the movements best interests at heart, so I almost wouldn't consider them to be part of the movement.

Blackbird does the saying 'shit or get off the pot' mean anything to you?

Notbad - As an extra, I agree that on one side it is targeted mainly at one individual- JKR. The threats I've seen from JKR "supporters" (I use the term lightly as I dont think a true jkr supporter would use death threats) have been to other people posting on that thread, to people on the "wrong side" rather than to one individual in the same position as jkr. I dont believe the other side has one individual that everyone is focusing on, but please do correct me if I'm wrong.

@Floisme

Blackbird does the saying 'shit or get off the pot' mean anything to you?

One of my favourite sayings.

I'm not here to provide proof for other peoples arguments

Just proof of your own though. You said JKR supporters are just as extreme as her opposers. They shouldn’t be hard to find. As an example, I just went on Twitter (I’m not on Twitter myself) put JK Rowling’s name into the search, and clicked “latest”. I found this, posted not half an hour ago. If you think there are “plenty” from the “other” side, I’m sure you can find an equivalent:

@Blackbird1234

Shedmistress - I'm not here to provide proof for other peoples arguments, for a side that I'm not even on. I'm happy to post some of the insightful posts I've seen against JKR, once I find them. But long lost tweets and comments that go back years by random people I dont know personally on at least 7 different platforms, arent something that I have the ability to find again. I have seen them, believe me or dont believe me, if/when I come across them again I will post, but i don't have the ability to go back over everything I've seen on my phone and my computer and my tablet over the past 3 years.

Sorry you said you were off to find them.

So you are not going to go find them.

Interesting.