Kellie Jay on Talk Radio with James Max

[Mollyollydolly]

Worth a watch. How much do men hate women who say 'no'. When speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1476131289870778374

I'll add to that, in case John etc join in.

I also wouldn't dream of telling any trans individual that they were not trans. How they feel, their sense of self is not mine to police.

But that sense, those feelings, end at the end of their nose. They have not right whatsoever to demand that I acquiesce and agree that they have actually changed sex.

When your sense of self demands to override the rights of others, logic and science it is you that has to stop and reconsider. Not the rest of the world.

I don’t think trans people literally feel, have a sensation, they are the opposite sex. Rather, I think they have a feeling they would be happier and would very much like to be the opposite sex, and are distressed because their body doesn’t match what they want. But the idea that they literally feel like the opposite sex, literally feel they have a vagina when they have a penis, is implausible to me. Or maybe Im just really struggling to understand it because I’m overthinking it. In any case , I agree that their feelings does not actually make them the opposite sex.

You need to be able to define something to feel /identify as it anyway wouldn't u?

Given a definition is lacking what are they even apparently feeling.

All the new speak teaching in the world, MrsM can't overcome a strong woman laughing and saying no.

Oh I know. And this is what needs to happen - people need to see that they are allowed to think, and to object to nonsense that can't be defended, and stand up to it.

My point is that Max is not saying all this because he's a total idiot. (He may be but it's irrelevant.) He's saying it because he thinks it is what he is meant to think and has been told to think, not just by some deluded individuals, but by many in authority. It's like growing up in a religion. For many it's just the truth, even if they can't see how it makes sense, they don't question that.

Kellie Jay engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man there. James Max embarrassed himself.

Born in the wrong body is a ludicrous phrase. And so offensive to disabled people - how careless of them to be born in their body.

But the idea that they literally feel like the opposite sex, literally feel they have a vagina when they have a penis, is implausible to me.

I think in general they don't claim to feel that. Instead it's more that they feel like [the sexist stereotype of] a woman or man in their inner sense of who they are.

Of course, you could feel exactly like this and not consider yourself trans, just gender non-conforming. It all depends on how much you think being male or female should correlate with a stereotype, and that feeling like what you suppose the opposite sex feels like means you are that sex.

WeeBisom according to one of my friends his childhood was acutely uncomfortable as when he saw his body in a mirror it didn't look how he imagined it to be. Nothing he could do made it look how he felt it should be. He was diagnosed with body dismorphia when he started to self harm.

I'm his late teens he put on a dress and make up and came to the pub dressed as a woman. The reaction he got was mixed (I was there, it was in the early 80s) and his only memory of that night was of fear and then relief. He has presented himself in a very feminine manner ever since.

He is effeminate. He has had face and breast surgery. He is in a long standing relationship with a gay man. He is a transwomen. And that means, to him, that he knows he is male but feels uncomfortable in a traditional masculine role so presents himself in a feminine manner.

He used to use female spaces, public loos etc. He no longer does. He gets it - now.

Thanks Mollyollydolly for posting this, one of the posters on Twitter said she'd never have thought PP v Harrop would be bettered, but that this one just takes the edge!

Men really do not like to be told no by strong, attractive women, do they? And she was so very calm and direct in her rebuttals.

I do like to transcribe things, this stood out to me (5.49 ish):

JM:I am slightly staggered by your views on the basis that, er, mayb..

KJK: That biological sex exists?! You're staggered by that view?

JM: Maybe I may have to change my mind - maybe it was right that if you take those views, you should be cancelled.

KJK: Wow. You're on Talk Radio, right?

JM: Yes.

KJK: Okay. And you think people should be cancelled for having the view that biological sex is real.

JM: (butting in) No, I don't. I don't think that people should be cancelled and I would like people to have different views, but I find it staggering that you would want to have this discrimination perpetrated against people who are born different to you

KJK: No. I want MEN out of women's spaces. That's not born different, that's a biological fact, and that biological fact determines whether somebody is a risk to women.

Make up your mind James - 'you should be cancelled' two seconds later 'I don't think that people should be cancelled'

@NancyDrawed

Thank you, Nancy.

Seems he is going to be continuing with this subject tomorrow. Could he be interviewing India as he retweeted their comments on the interview?

Still doubling down

Oops, should have left a bigger gap before adding my own comment about James doing a cancelled / not cancelled u-turn.

It looks a bit like KJK said that. which she didn't.

I wonder which way the discussion will go tomorrow. I'm imagining it will be a 'most marginalised and discriminated against' slant. I wonder whether the guest will be as direct and clear as Kellie-Jay, or whether there will be lots of feelings and stereotypes?

That was hilarious and cringe. That guy had nothing. He thought his imaginary moral high ground would prepare him adequately I guess.

I have trouble with the "choosing to be gay" part of the interview.

I understand it's only a small part, but PP has often struck me as being slightly homophobic and this doesn't help.

Being gay isn't a choice, and it is obscenely homophobic to suggest it is. I think a lot of sensible people will have been turned off when she mentioned that. Doesn't help with the "bigot" accusations.

Of course, the interviewer seemed like a total twat and she rightly wiped the floor with him in all other respects.

He's being absolutely roasted on Twitter, and rightly so.

@Snoozer11

I have trouble with the "choosing to be gay" part of the interview.

I understand it's only a small part, but PP has often struck me as being slightly homophobic and this doesn't help.

Being gay isn't a choice, and it is obscenely homophobic to suggest it is. I think a lot of sensible people will have been turned off when she mentioned that. Doesn't help with the "bigot" accusations.

Of course, the interviewer seemed like a total twat and she rightly wiped the floor with him in all other respects.

Do you think she's lying about what her gay friends told her?

@334bu

Seems he is going to be continuing with this subject tomorrow. Could he be interviewing India as he retweeted their comments on the interview?

Sad to say, India is a bonehead and any interview would throw much more sound than light.

@Snoozer11

I have trouble with the "choosing to be gay" part of the interview.

I understand it's only a small part, but PP has often struck me as being slightly homophobic and this doesn't help.

Being gay isn't a choice, and it is obscenely homophobic to suggest it is. I think a lot of sensible people will have been turned off when she mentioned that. Doesn't help with the "bigot" accusations.

Of course, the interviewer seemed like a total twat and she rightly wiped the floor with him in all other respects.

She said there was two routes, according to information she has read. 1) Choosing to be so. 2) Or being born that way.
Why does that make her homophobic?

For accuracy she said there were two routes to homosexuality- being born homosexual or choosing.

No doubt that point could be something people would argue, but please don't misrepresent what she said. I'll do a transcript in a bit.

Sad to say, India is a bonehead and any interview would throw much more sound than light.

Oh I'm definitely tuning in if it's India. Comedy gold.

Snoozer11 - that jarred a little with me, too, as I can recall seeing a video where a man on the street put the 'born gay or choose to be gay' question to people in America. When people answered 'choose to be gay' he countered with ' That's interesting - when did you choose to be straight?' which really struck me at the time.
But in this, I think KJK says that she had read things that suggested that some people in homosexual relationships had always felt that they had been born that way and some had homosexual relationships later in life (I assume she means people who are bisexual). So, she says she thinks some people are born gay and others choose a homosexual relationship. I'll listen again.

Being gay isn't a choice, and it is obscenely homophobic to suggest it is.

I haven't listened yet but wanted to point out political lesbians were a significant part of 2nd wave feminism and it's not as simple as saying "it's not a choice" is homophobic. Separatists within political lesbianism is also a concept that exists as a way to live without entirely men.

I believe she quoted her friend Sheila Jeffries as being the source for the ‘choice’ route.

Perhaps the discussion needs to be had amongst those who are same sex oriented. But otherwise I would take it up with Sheila (if I did indeed remember the source correctly) if you have an issue with this.

James Max was appalling.
No words. Fortunately he’s getting huge push back on Twitter.
Anyone know why post changed her name? She was brilliant 🤩