Tom Daley Christmas message

[ChristinaXYZ]

Tom Daley is giving the alternative Christmas message on Channel 4 this year.

www.channel4.com/press/news/tom-daley-deliver-2021-alternative-christmas-message

Scroll down the above page for the text of the speech.

I am fine with him praising Quinn but he skips over the other conflicting arguments and issues over including transwomen in women's sport.

He is however spot on with the ridiculousness of major sports granting the prestige of the top competitions to places with dubious human rights records.

*can write, not can’t.

I am always very interested in why people feel it is ever ok to even ask another woman to carry a child for other’s benefit.

Those people doing the asking often minimise the risk. Having ended up with a traumatic delivery that was completely unforeseen by midwives and obstetricians, I know the risks personally.

If you are promoting the use of women’s bodies for this use, your motivation can only be because you won’t acknowledge the risks to others.

All the minimising of those risks will not make the situation any safer in reality. Women are not breeding stock. And don’t continue to delude yourself that women altruistically offering to do this may have still been coerced (emotionally or financially) or have a mental illness that is being taken advantage of.

May ‘not’ have been coerced.

@Helleofabore

I am always very interested in why people feel it is ever ok to even ask another woman to carry a child for other’s benefit.

Those people doing the asking often minimise the risk. Having ended up with a traumatic delivery that was completely unforeseen by midwives and obstetricians, I know the risks personally.

If you are promoting the use of women’s bodies for this use, your motivation can only be because you won’t acknowledge the risks to others.

All the minimising of those risks will not make the situation any safer in reality. Women are not breeding stock. And don’t continue to delude yourself that women altruistically offering to do this may have still been coerced (emotionally or financially) or have a mental illness that is being taken advantage of.

Agree with this. I needed a transfusion after my first baby, sudden collapse and blood loss. Took me a long time to recover physically and emotionally. Two friends have had severe prolapse and needed a hysterectomy. Another friend almost died with a retained placenta.

@Justme56

Sorry but a declaration of a non binary identity does not make a person special especially not in sport. What adversity has Quinn got over? has Quinn ever been prevented from playing on the women’s team? Yes the whole team did really well but it had nothing to do with Quinn’s self identity.

Ah, so Quinn is a non binary female? I was confused by the word "trans" and wondered if it was a trans-identified male playing in a women's sports team, or a trans-identified female. Both of which I would consider to be unfair. But this is a female person who considers themself to be neither male or female, not taking any male hormones, playing on a team of people of their own sex? I struggle to see why that's so groundbreaking or why they even deserve a special mention.

Yes, Quinn is a biological female playing in the women's soccer team. Ground-breaking stuff.

The included Quinn in their coverage of the Olympic Games, the video is time stamped for the introduction of Quinn.

Quinn is the only example Daley could use. He knew perfectly well Hubbard went down like a bucket of cold sick at the Olympics but Quinn a biological woman bravely playing on a team of other biological women isn’t going to scare the horses

It also shows what utter bollox the ever widening trans umbrella is - it’s not so much as an umbrella now as a fully furnished marquee

SirVixofVixHall

And I remember in that it was rare to hear about the dangers of childbirth before I was due. And it was only when I started to discretely mention the trauma of my experience that I realised so many of us had very traumatic births. But never discussed it. Because we were socialised to not scare other women.

But yes, many women in my mothers group had traumatic births. Quite a few were not able to have more or chose not to due to the trauma. Others did have more and still had issues but they were adding to THEIR family so assessed the risk was worth it.

And this was the UK.

Yet, here we are … people glossing over the risks because of their own agenda.

And they simply will never acknowledge that risk and that they have reduced women to breeding stock for their own/their communities purpose.

Yeah!!! Women are liberated!!!

To clarify, out of 10 of us in my mother’s group that I was in touch with outside the sessions at least 5 had complications late in the pregnancies/traumatic deliveries/ complications afterwards.

A cousin had such a traumatic delivery ( failed forceps, baby had to be pushed back up and an emergency c section performed) that she took nearly a decade to steel herself for another much wanted baby.
Of course maternal death is rare in the Uk, but I know many women left with birth injuries and/or trauma.

To be fair, there may be a good physiological reason not to frighten women who are in labour: fright causes "flight and fight" reflex, which concentrates blood in the limbs, whereas labour needs blood in the abdomen for the muscles there.

I am surprised everyone has got so socialised so quickly; when I was pregnant during the eighties it seemed as if every third woman who spoke to me wanted to tell me about the awful experience she (or a friend or an aunt of hers) had had in labour. Though the "total strangers at the bus stop wanting to feel the bump without asking" stuff had not yet started -- or perhaps I was just rather forbidding and they didn't dare.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Quinn is the only example Daley could use. He knew perfectly well Hubbard went down like a bucket of cold sick at the Olympics but Quinn a biological woman bravely playing on a team of other biological women isn’t going to scare the horses

It also shows what utter bollox the ever widening trans umbrella is - it’s not so much as an umbrella now as a fully furnished marquee

He mentioned Quinn because they won a medal, ie a tangible achievement. While Hubbard, despite the insistence that trans women will automatically dominate women's sport, failed to even make a lift, let alone get placed.

Because Hubbard was unfit, injured, old (well into veteran category) and yet somehow they were still the best weightlifter that NZ had to offer, apparently. Better than all those well prepared and well trained young women half Hubbard's age who took part in all the Olympic qualifiers.

The fact that Hubbard crashed out with such an embarrassing effort makes it worse for those NZ women who were bumped to make way. Not better.

@UltraVividLament

Because Hubbard was unfit, injured, old (well into veteran category) and yet somehow they were still the best weightlifter that NZ had to offer, apparently. Better than all those well prepared and well trained young women half Hubbard's age who took part in all the Olympic qualifiers.

The fact that Hubbard crashed out with such an embarrassing effort makes it worse for those NZ women who were bumped to make way. Not better.

And looked suspiciously like they'd thrown the lift, especially when the video is slowed down... I also can't remember the last time I've seen a competitor in Olympic weightlifting fail to make their lift and smile while . Nothing questionable here folks.

My daughter and I predicted Hubbard would not get placed. Tactical?

I said to my mum before that I wondered if they would throw it on purpose. There was so much controversy around them taking part that it wouldn’t exactly pave the way for more trans women if they proved the point that they had an advantage.

But either way, they still did have an advantage over a natal NZ woman who didn’t get to qualify for the olympics because of their presence.

The good thing is that their having prevented someone qualified from taking part was really, really obvious.

The bad thing is that they prevented someone qualified from taking place.

He mentioned Quinn because they won a medal, ie a tangible achievement. While Hubbard, despite the insistence that trans women will automatically dominate women's sport, failed to even make a lift, let alone get placed.

A female person won a medal in a female event. Marvellous. We can celebrate that just as we celebrate all other Olympian medallists, and if (biologically) male people who identify as trans were competing in male events, then I'm sure we would all celebrate and applaud their successes too.

A middle aged biologically male person taking a spot in a female event at the Olympics however, denying the chance to be an Olympian to a young woman who’s trained as hard as she can for it and who rightly deserved to be there - and that person then mysteriously massively underperforming on the day compared to that person’s own previous gold medal “winning” successes, enabling people like you to say, “look, Hubbard had no advantage at all!” - well, I don’t see anything to celebrate or applaud in that. Quite the opposite.

I ask you again, Blueberry: why is it so hard for you to break the habit of male oppression of females? Why are you quite so dedicated to doing your best to make the world an even more unsafe, unfair, unrewarding place for biologically female people than it already is?

Is it because you don’t see us as fully human?