I feel let down and insulted by the stupidity of the gender worshippers

[NonnyMouse1337]

I sometimes wish there was someone, anyone, amongst the gender worshippers with some semblance of intelligence. Even their 'best' arguments are so utterly stupid that it's sort of quite sad.

I read and listen to people who are non-believers in gender theology and they almost always come across as sharp minded, witty and capable of rational interaction. Even if I don't always agree with what's said, I can sort of see the rationale behind their points. It's how I ended up changing my mind.

Gender worshippers, on the other hand, remind me of the creationists and the 'intelligent design' types that I and many others used to debate years ago. The sheer nonsense they came up with.... And they actually expected to be taken seriously!

I mean there could be some really interesting conversations between theists and atheists - proper theologians who had genuinely insightful comments that made me appreciate a spiritual perspective, even if I ultimately didn't agree with it.

And then you had the creationists / fundamentalist types with their 'If humans evolved from monkeys how come monkeys are still around huh? Huh? Gotcha!' 🙄
They would post all sorts of articles and videos 'debunking' evolution and atheism, or 'proving' science in the Bible or Quran or whatever, and it was kind of sad at how shite the arguments were. They were all variations on the same themes. It got really boring after a while so that you stopped engaging with them, and the muppets were so thick they actually thought it was proof they had won the argument.

But at least most of the secular institutions weren't taking them seriously. Simpler times.

Just a Monday morning reflection.

Nonny, try to look on the positive side. I liked this exchange at the end of by Benjamin Boyce:

E: That's what Christopher Hitchens said, that he liked talking to religious fundamentalists because you just never know what they're going to say next. They're trying to make their their irrational belief system rational. It's funny. It's like watching an adult chase their own tail. And catch it, and they're really proud of themselves.

B: Yeah, and then they trot it out on a TED Talk.

E: Have you seen that one where the dog catches his own leg and then tries to carry it?

B: No.

E: And he's like walking with like his three legs and his other leg's in his mouth.

There's always a fair bit of repetition in these circus acts, but you never know when you're going to see something quite spectacular.

Thanks NecessaryScene. I'll have a listen. I do remember Hitchens saying that. And I do find some of it funny. Or at least I used to. If the gender worshippers just did their thing, and all we had to do was point and laugh, yeah I'd find it funny. We're in some bizarre Twilight zone though, because we're still pointing and laughing but now politicians and public bodies are figuratively doing the sign of the gender cross and implementing policies based on edicts by zealots.

I lurked on these boards for a while before posting. I waited and waited for the TRAs to provide answers to the really incisive questions posed on here.

They never responded. I got impatient and wondered why they wouldn't just answer the questions (eg 'what is gender identity' if it has nothing to do with identifying with stereotypes? What are the objective criteria for determining 'gender identity'? How are you defining the words 'man' and 'woman' if you reject the notion that they are descriptors of biological sex?)

At the time I genuinely thought there were answers and the ideology had some kind of scientific basis.

Eventually the penny dropped that nobody was answering the questions because they didn't have any answers.

Over two years later and I'm still waiting...

I agree with you about the difference in the quality of the debate. I have just read the speech Abigail Shrier gave to the students at Princeton, it’s amazing.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/what-i-told-the-students-of-princeton?r=8aqhg&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

I'd have more respect for them if they were honest and admitted there were differences, legislation could be abused and there does need to be compromise.

Not fingers in ears, shouting about transphobia and insisting there is absolutely no difference between women and transwomen (and sometimes transgender and men)

The strategic illiteracy confuses me.

If I regularly had to resort to pretending I hadn't been able to complete the Oxford Reading Tree [other reading schemea available] in order to hold and defend my philosophical position, I simply wouldn't.

[quote Lordamighty]I agree with you about the difference in the quality of the debate. I have just read the speech Abigail Shrier gave to the students at Princeton, it’s amazing.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/what-i-told-the-students-of-princeton?r=8aqhg&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email[/quote]
Thanks for posting this. I really admire Abigail.

[quote Lordamighty]I agree with you about the difference in the quality of the debate. I have just read the speech Abigail Shrier gave to the students at Princeton, it’s amazing.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/what-i-told-the-students-of-princeton?r=8aqhg&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email[/quote]
What a great speech - thanks for sharing the link.

I agree with you entirely. They come from one of two camps - the intellectually dishonest, and the hard of thinking.

Grow up

Or do you not believe in that either 😂😂😂

I haven’t done a survey, academic research but I also feel let down down by the under 25’s who appear to have swallowed the lie hook, line and sinker without identifying the misogyny/ major harm to women.

Happy to be corrected but cannot think of many or any youngsters who are able to be truthful about this issue. I always feel like I’m in a bad panto of the ‘Emperor’s New Clothes’.

I'm assuming you're referring to people who believe in genders from your post. But I'm not so sure now. Regardless you need to be clearer.

@StandUpStraight

I agree with you entirely. They come from one of two camps - the intellectually dishonest, and the hard of thinking.

Exactly

@Moneypennysfreedomfund

I haven’t done a survey, academic research but I also feel let down down by the under 25’s who appear to have swallowed the lie hook, line and sinker without identifying the misogyny/ major harm to women.

Happy to be corrected but cannot think of many or any youngsters who are able to be truthful about this issue. I always feel like I’m in a bad panto of the ‘Emperor’s New Clothes’.

I can sympathise with under 25's. They are surrounded by dogmatic individuals and groups. The pressure to go along with peers is very strong when you're young. And gender believers aren't known for being kind, rational people. So it's scary to challenge or go against what seems to be the popular viewpoint (even if many people are having doubts or don't buy into the ideology completely). I'm sure if the adults grew a backbone and stopped pandering to bullies, for example in universities, then it might be a lot easier for students to openly reject gender theology as well. They are being woefully let down by those who should know better.

Just here with the popcorn waiting for one of them to prove your point😉

You can't argue with stupid.

It'll all fizzle down in a couple of years.

Most of it is fueled by the media.

@TheWeeDonkey

Just here with the popcorn waiting for one of them to prove your point😉

I think Ahblahblablah has already popped on to do just that

@Ahblahblablah

I'm assuming you're referring to people who believe in genders from your post. But I'm not so sure now. Regardless you need to be clearer.

I can imagine to someone who hast read much of this feminist board it might not be clear what OP meant by "gender worshippers". So you could have just asked her, rather than telling her to grow up?

And your 2nd post was equally unclear. The phrase "believe in genders" could mean various different things. Please could you clarify what you meant?

@Moneypennysfreedomfund

I haven’t done a survey, academic research but I also feel let down down by the under 25’s who appear to have swallowed the lie hook, line and sinker without identifying the misogyny/ major harm to women.

Happy to be corrected but cannot think of many or any youngsters who are able to be truthful about this issue. I always feel like I’m in a bad panto of the ‘Emperor’s New Clothes’.

I always think it's because they're so young and will understand as they get older and experience the world. Then I realise I sound so patronising from their POV ... But I think it's true. So many women get more feminist as they get older as a result of experience.

The one that I can't get my head around is someone I know who socially transitioned their child. She (the mother) has always been gender (stereotype) nonconforming, and became more vocally feminist after experiencing pregnancy, really being aware of the biological differences affecting experience. I cannot get my head around how she can believe gender ideology. It makes no sense whatsoever looking at her life and (former) beliefs. I could just about understand a very stereotypically feminine woman believing it

What dismays me the most and I can't work out is the otherwise intelligent adults who concede that women need single sex spaces in some instances yet STILL broadly side with the TRAs and malign women for being transphobic and saying that they need these things. It frustrates me that I can't see where that angle is coming from

Totally agree with you, OP. It is demoralising, and the analogy with young creationists is very accurate.

@Ahblahblablah

Grow up

Or do you not believe in that either 😂😂😂

Case in point.

I’m no scientist but I found this article interesting and apposite - “stubborn irrationality” "disable critical thinking processes and freeze emotional processing" -
www.labroots.com/trending/neuroscience/15729/cults-change-brain

Well, long before this I always believed that humans were a predominantly driven by instincts and emotions. Its why I had no truck with humanists who believe we are a rational species heading, eschatologically, to a better future.

I feel quite vindicated that the humanists have proved my point by adopting all this irrational nonsense to satisfy their tribal instincts

I would say that people who believe all this are not stupid. I agree that the beliefs are irrational, anti-reality and utterly incoherent. But smart people can believe irrational things if they have powerful motivators to do so. In this case, their motivators are tribal allegiance ( I am part of this good group, this good group thinks this so I do too, because I am good and part of this group ) and fear of social ostracisation by your group.

And also, all of the people I know in RL who believe this stuff don't actually understand what it is they are defending. One friend, defending all this, made three statements that would have her hounded as transphobic, in the course of DEFENDING TWAW. Most lay followers don't really what they are following.

I agree, OP.

I’ve been at this now for, oooh, seven years or so? And I’m bored, frankly.

There’s only so many times a woman can ask the same questions and receive the self same dishonesty, disingenuousness and deflection in response. There is no intellectual curiosity in the genderist position. There is only the public recitation of the credo, and the endless navel gazing meanderings into self from solipsistic individuals who think that everyone else finds them as endlessly fascinating as they do.

Bored.

But the bugger is, I can’t disengage because we still need to keep up the pressure.