Choreographer Rosie Kay forced to resign from her own company

[peonyred]

This is a share token so you can read the story. Another Janice Turner article. Simone suggested Crowdfunding for her new company.

Rosie Kay: I resigned from my own dance company after I was accused of transphobia

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3935bc4a-5858-11ec-a3f7-65d2d47c7fea?shareToken=d4efe0ddb11ede84d52835a0a02d70e3

@KittenKong

When they cry that we can’t say boy, girl, male, female. woman or man (or more likely can’t say girl or woman) you know we aren’t dealing with rational people here.

Precisely. This is why I don't engage with them. It only wastes my time.

@KittenKong

When they cry that we can’t say boy, girl, male, female. woman or man (or more likely can’t say girl or woman) you know we aren’t dealing with rational people here.

Are you saying that my posts about human physiology are not rational?

That removing sex based terminology will have no effect on any aspect of our lives? Because that is what was being objected to. Boy steps and girls steps being a bit

Ooh, do edumacate me. I is all ears!

Oh! I stayed on my high horse for a jump too far

That YouTube is hilarious.

Funny how the non binaries new exactly which parts to audition for based on their sex...

Kay asked them to define non-binary. At that she says several male dancers shouted that she was a bigot and a terf

Funny how it was the male dancers who shouted her down and called her a bigot and a terf in her own home because that's what they have to do when a woman disagrees and when they have absolutely no reasonable, coherent and logical answer to her question. Deflect, acuse and silence.

What happened to the days when those who were young and inexperienced would grab an opportunity to work with someone like this and get their face known and make the most of it.

Their own cognitive dissonance makes them want to destroy those in their way. They simply cannot cope with anyone who won't agree with them.

It makes the mind boggle, this "non-binary" thing -- I assume it started as a way of signalling a kind of performative androgyny and challenge gender roles, but some young people seem to actually genuinely have come to believe that they really are some kind of indeterminate material being, and that the truth we all know (which is that the "non-binary" person is a young person who is either male or female but playing around with gender roles), we're not "allowed" to articulate.

What is it that they want? NB people aren't for the most part - if ever - people with DSDs. We all know there aren't any genderless third sex or unsexed aliens that they "really" are. But the idea that we quite literally have to pretend they are not actually male or female is insane. It's batshit territory. No trustee board or public body or institution or legal framework should have to pretend otherwise.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

Id like to say that I consider somebody realising and admitting that they have made an error is one of the best signs they have a rational mind.

5 soldiers

m.youtube.com/watch?v=2urN4ESejFo

The wording of the article does lead you to the word 'lazy' on multiple fronts doesn't it?

Yes, it would be good to read an article that is less leading on multiple fronts.

She's an extraordinary choreographer. This is utterly utterly appalling. I've dug in her garden.

I hope the publicity in The Times helps, and also peaks more people. To lose one's job, after stating a biological fact in one's own home is really scary.

She referred to "boy jumps" and "girl jumps" which are completely different things in ballet. It is a heavily codified form a dance and a lot of modern productions play around with this but she was not wrong to refer to them as such.

And when I was training, we leaned the male ballet repertoire of steps - a lot of them aren't too different from female steps, and we all do much the same in class - but men have different musculature & strength, and can jump higher, and stay up longer, so they can do more with all the big jumps. Women can do them, but they look different.

@aliasundercover it seems pointless not to. Everyone can see where a prize pillock was uncovered.

I had no excuse. I just didn't fully engage brain

What is it that they want? NB people aren't for the most part - if ever - people with DSDs. We all know there aren't any genderless third sex or unsexed aliens that they "really" are. But the idea that we quite literally have to pretend they are not actually male or female is insane. It's batshit territory. No trustee board or public body or institution or legal framework should have to pretend otherwise.

I once had an argument with someone on another site who said because they were NB they didn't have a sex and therefore had no legal rights at all, they were quite serious, not trolling

foxgoosefinch
But the idea that we quite literally have to pretend they are not actually male or female is insane.

I caught most of an interesting programme on the World Service the other day in which a child called "Baby John Musamba" was described as literally having no developed genitals. Brought up as a girl because it was simply easier, she came out as unusual when she was twenty-six.

A rare case of someone who really was neither one nor the other.

I definitely wouldn't believe it to be the case when two people out of nine claim it, though! Not unless it were some situation in which the unsexed had been actively recruited.

I find the conflation of non binary gender identity with DSDs concerning, as I've seen some TRAs make. It muddies the already murky waters.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime this Baby John Musamba is a woman with MRKH syndrome. It sounds like her diagnosis has been poorly understood by herself and those around her, and those reporting on it. This is most definitely not a case of someone who is neither male or female. And it is nothing to do with transgenderism or gender ideology.

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime this Baby John Musamba is a woman with MRKH syndrome. It sounds like her diagnosis has been poorly understood by herself and those around her, and those reporting on it. This is most definitely not a case of someone who is neither male or female. And it is nothing to do with transgenderism or gender ideology. [/quote]
And the non- or mis-diagnosis may be as much to do with the disadvantages of race, country & access to healthcare. Caster Semenya was undiagnosed VSD (DSD) which may have been a consequence of her race & her family's access to healthcare when she was born.

I was simply interested that this ONE instance of what was regarded as an unsexed individual was regarded as so remarkable that it got a programme on the radio all about it, and yet two out of nine people in this dance group seemed to be claiming the same ... what, status? Condition?

[quote BoreOfWhabylon]5 soldiers

m.youtube.com/watch?v=2urN4ESejFo[/quote]
Thank you.

Donated to the fundraiser. Rosie has put a bit more info on what legal costs she’s anticipating on her donations page.

Peter Daly is her lawyer

@LaPufalina

Peter Daly is her lawyer

Then I'm in.

(Peter Daly represented Maya Forstater. Here's his thoughts on that judgment: The Forstater Judgment: What Next?)

Darcy Bussell is such a tough but that when she broke both wrists slamming into the wings (an issue for dance spaces and dancers is that they come off stage at full speed) she nevertheless finished the act.

Did she ever lift any male dancers in moves that male dancers typically make with female?

Ballet has been subject to many challenges in recent years: the long exclusion of dancers of colour for example. Boy Jumps and Girl Jumps are technical terms in the context of dance, but actually as RK herself said she did ‘boy jumps’ the ability to to them does not seem to rely on physiology. Always worth reviewing, discussing and updating our language. Not reporting people for using standard terminology.

This is appalling.

You simply can't escape biological reality in dance.

Circus has tried, but as hormones affect physical strength and biology impacts discussion of training etc they have resorted to calling people.... drumroll....xx and xy.