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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Choreographer Rosie Kay forced to resign from her own company

417 replies

peonyred · 09/12/2021 08:10

This is a share token so you can read the story. Another Janice Turner article. Simone suggested Crowdfunding for her new company.

Rosie Kay: I resigned from my own dance company after I was accused of transphobia

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3935bc4a-5858-11ec-a3f7-65d2d47c7fea?shareToken=d4efe0ddb11ede84d52835a0a02d70e3

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8
inferiorCatSlave · 09/12/2021 11:33

It's unbelievable and must be very hurtful for her.

Auditioning a young cast, aged 22-27, she found them troubled. “Covid had lowered their spirits. No one hung out together. They were very disjointed.”

It says 4 out of 9 complained - though their does seem to be view they were all struggling to take direction and weren't that greatful for opportunities -however I wonder if it was less covid effects she saw and more awareness that their peers were actively waiting to be offended so weren't as socialable with them as a result.

KittenKong · 09/12/2021 11:42

Honestly this sort of nonsense puts me in mind of a man I worked with who is Albanian.

He told me that when he lived there one of his old lecturers was getting towards retirement, so had a little leaving do with family, colleagues and old students.

A little too much to drink all round and the lecturer said exactly what he thought of the government (not overly insulting but critical). The lecturer soon after just disappeared.

Its snitching for ribbons and getting people into trouble.

Shortpoet · 09/12/2021 11:47

That ‘a chilling about the Albanian lecturer.

“Nearly all children nowadays were horrible. What was worst of all was that by means of such organizations as the Spies they were systematically turned into ungovernable little savages, and yet this produced in them no tendency whatever to rebel against the discipline of the Party. On the contrary, they adored the Party and everything connected with it… All their ferocity was turned outwards, against the enemies of the State, against foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals. It was almost normal for people over thirty to be frightened of their own children.” George Orwell, 1984

refusetobeasheep · 09/12/2021 11:57

The garden has now opened for this - I've dug

HollowTalk · 09/12/2021 11:59

It's absolutely outrageous. What has it come to that she has to leave her own business for saying that men can't change sex?

Shedmistress · 09/12/2021 12:02

'you do the girl steps and you do the boy steps'

'Waaaa - but I'm non-binary - what about my steps?'

Is the moment she should have called time on this and ditched them all and started from scratch.

bellinisurge · 09/12/2021 12:05

What the absolute fucking fuck is this fucking nonsense? More bullshit to peak the world.

IntermittentParps · 09/12/2021 12:27

TBF I think saying girl steps and boy steps is a bit Hmm, but it's a very mild 'crime'; just a slightly hackneyed/thoughtless way of speaking. And I do take her point that in rehearsals you need to be able to communicate in a sort of 'shorthand'.
It could have been sorted with a quiet word to her direct and a discussion about how to refer to steps instead. Maybe even a laugh about it.

Abhannmor · 09/12/2021 14:03

Just mind numbing really. I would chip into any funder and I don't even like ballet.

MoltenLasagne · 09/12/2021 14:10

She referred to "boy jumps" and "girl jumps" which are completely different things in ballet. It is a heavily codified form a dance and a lot of modern productions play around with this but she was not wrong to refer to them as such.

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 09/12/2021 14:11

@IntermittentParps

TBF I think saying girl steps and boy steps is a bit Hmm, but it's a very mild 'crime'; just a slightly hackneyed/thoughtless way of speaking. And I do take her point that in rehearsals you need to be able to communicate in a sort of 'shorthand'. It could have been sorted with a quiet word to her direct and a discussion about how to refer to steps instead. Maybe even a laugh about it.
Telling her - the director and founder of her own company - how to describe moves. That is incredibly obnoxious and show a lack of understanding of the topic.
Bunce1 · 09/12/2021 14:18

Watching with interest.

Gwan Rosie!

IntermittentParps · 09/12/2021 14:31

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant, I'm not disputing that she has excellent knowledge of the steps, and that in ballet and the rehearsal context that is how people tend to communicate. In fact I was at pains to make that clear.
My point is that I do think it's valid to question terminology. As she said herself, ballet can be very gendered and (this is not her words) a bit old-fashioned/hidebound by tradition. I am not trans but I would raise an eyebrow (I DO raise an eyebrow) at things being called 'boy' and 'girl' things and similar; even outwith the trans/GC debate and context, I do think ballet's approach and attitude stands to be interrogated a bit.
I will stand by this POV. I do not accept that this is 'obnoxious'.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 09/12/2021 16:39

My point is that I do think it's valid to question terminology. Which they did. And look what happened.

Thses days having somethign questioned is the same as being placed on the ducking stool. There is no good outcome for the individual sat on the stool.

I am not trans but I would raise an eyebrow (I DO raise an eyebrow) at things being called 'boy' and 'girl' things and similar; even outwith the trans/GC debate and context

Yeah! And that's how sport is being destroyed. Because nobody will stand up and say that there ARE a myriad of thinghs that the male body can do that the female body cannot, and vice versa. That some movements are best performed by one sex or the other.

You can stand by your POV but human physiology, and your skeletal self, will always stand against you. Especially outwith the tras/GC debate anc context.

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 09/12/2021 16:42

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

My point is that I do think it's valid to question terminology. Which they did. And look what happened.

Thses days having somethign questioned is the same as being placed on the ducking stool. There is no good outcome for the individual sat on the stool.

I am not trans but I would raise an eyebrow (I DO raise an eyebrow) at things being called 'boy' and 'girl' things and similar; even outwith the trans/GC debate and context

Yeah! And that's how sport is being destroyed. Because nobody will stand up and say that there ARE a myriad of thinghs that the male body can do that the female body cannot, and vice versa. That some movements are best performed by one sex or the other.

You can stand by your POV but human physiology, and your skeletal self, will always stand against you. Especially outwith the tras/GC debate anc context.

What? Are you saying that there are actual physical differences between males and females? Whoa.
IntermittentParps · 09/12/2021 16:47

This is not a hill I'm interested in dying on.

My posts make abundantly clear that I support Kay and find the dancers' behaviour and the board's response egregious and wrong. The thing about terminology was just a tiny point.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 09/12/2021 16:50

Terminology?

So we can't refer to sex at all? No men, women, boys, girls?

That isn't a tiny point.

IntermittentParps · 09/12/2021 16:53

boy jumps and girl jumps was all I was talking about. At no point have I said anything about no men, women, boys or girls.
That's the last I'll say about this.

Shedmistress · 09/12/2021 16:54

@IntermittentParps

This is not a hill I'm interested in dying on.

My posts make abundantly clear that I support Kay and find the dancers' behaviour and the board's response egregious and wrong. The thing about terminology was just a tiny point.

They were performing Romeo and Juliet.

Penis steps and Vagina steps?

Now if there was only a word to describe those performing the penis parts and one for the vagina parts, to make it quicker to explain who she was talking to...what would those words be???

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 09/12/2021 17:10

Oooh! Last word hey!?!

Come on. Just discuss what you actually meant and we can see if it has been a misunderstanding or not.

KeflavikAirport · 09/12/2021 17:26

Surely girl steps and boy steps refers to the characters being danced not the bodies of the dancers?

KittenKong · 09/12/2021 17:27

Boy steps and girl steps you say?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=tlETXxmso3Q

Shedmistress · 09/12/2021 17:28

Surely girl steps and boy steps refers to the characters being danced not the bodies of the dancers?

I know, right?

KittenKong · 09/12/2021 17:29

When they cry that we can’t say boy, girl, male, female. woman or man (or more likely can’t say girl or woman) you know we aren’t dealing with rational people here.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 09/12/2021 17:31

@KeflavikAirport

Surely girl steps and boy steps refers to the characters being danced not the bodies of the dancers?
And in ballet the difference is?

It was a reference to them being asked to do some warm up moves. The 'hims' to do the steps that only 'hims' do and the 'hers' to do the steps only 'hers' do as they tend to be the steps that stretch the performer and aren't done as an ensemble becasue they are sex based, discrete to each sex, able to be done mostly/best by each sex having been designed that way by some ballet genius with good knowledge of dance physiology many years ago.

Basically she was telling them to make some room and finish warning up!