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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Choreographer Rosie Kay forced to resign from her own company

417 replies

peonyred · 09/12/2021 08:10

This is a share token so you can read the story. Another Janice Turner article. Simone suggested Crowdfunding for her new company.

Rosie Kay: I resigned from my own dance company after I was accused of transphobia

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3935bc4a-5858-11ec-a3f7-65d2d47c7fea?shareToken=d4efe0ddb11ede84d52835a0a02d70e3

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WandaWomblesaurus · 08/05/2022 18:27

olzdee · 08/05/2022 18:22

You are insulting my daughter. A girl who has devoted nearly every minute of her life to her craft. When other kids were out playing she practiced and studied dance. A girl who at 14 won a scholarship to any top tier Dance school. If you had bothered to actually see the production you would have seen how she brought classically trained excellence to the show. She simply defended the rights of trans people. She always has stuck up for people. If you knew her you would not call her anything but an outstanding and kind person.

Just trying to understand why this thread has been resurrected. Is your daughter one of the people who complained about Rosie?

AlisonDonut · 08/05/2022 18:30

olzdee · 08/05/2022 18:22

You are insulting my daughter. A girl who has devoted nearly every minute of her life to her craft. When other kids were out playing she practiced and studied dance. A girl who at 14 won a scholarship to any top tier Dance school. If you had bothered to actually see the production you would have seen how she brought classically trained excellence to the show. She simply defended the rights of trans people. She always has stuck up for people. If you knew her you would not call her anything but an outstanding and kind person.

Huh?

She outstandingly and kindly got Rosie Kay sacked? From her own company?

Helleofabore · 08/05/2022 18:31

Which dancer is your ‘daughter’? The one who insisted they were misgendered? And because of that a woman lost her business which she created?

WandaWomblesaurus · 08/05/2022 18:31

Who did she stick up for exactly? Not vulnerable women and children.

olzdee · 08/05/2022 18:32

My daughter is neither entitled or pampered. She worked and practiced from an early age going from a little Sunday ballet class to world class performances through hard work and sacrifice. She always got on well with any of her Instructors. She is shy and would not have made an issue out of nothing. She is the opposite to the type of person you describe. A hard working down to earth dancer.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 08/05/2022 18:33

There was clearly quite a lot more to the story than "simply defending the rights of trans people." Maybe you should read the articles that are discussed on the thread, and discuss them with your daughter? Seems like you both could learn something.

If she was not one of the instigators of this incident but was just swept along with it, then maaaaybe she's a kind person as you say, but she needs to get a backbone too.

WandaWomblesaurus · 08/05/2022 18:34

But she complained about a woman who stated material reality - and managed along with others to have that woman's company shut down. She effectively ended another woman's career.

Igneococcus · 08/05/2022 18:36

I didn't know hard workers can't be criticised.

WandaWomblesaurus · 08/05/2022 18:36

WandaWomblesaurus · 08/05/2022 18:34

But she complained about a woman who stated material reality - and managed along with others to have that woman's company shut down. She effectively ended another woman's career.

Or am I misunderstanding something here?

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 08/05/2022 18:37

Kind people don’t get other people sacked for sticking to biological reality

If you really are one of the dancers parents, I find it odd that you went hunting for a thread from December last year

this isn’t going to end well is it…..

Helleofabore · 08/05/2022 18:41

I am all agog to hear why such a ‘hard working dancer’ would get a woman sacked from her own business built on her own ‘hard work’ for misgendering.

And why your child (and are you misgendering them here???) would think that was a proportionate act.

WandaWomblesaurus · 08/05/2022 18:42

Just reposting the Times article about it here "I resigned from my own dance company after I was accused of transphobia"

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3935bc4a-5858-11ec-a3f7-65d2d47c7fea?shareToken=d576160da31a2e68da7515d1d6a6b10d

Wow it's an astonishing read.

WandaWomblesaurus · 08/05/2022 18:44

It would be hard employing any of those dancers again unless the person doing the employing is constantly policing their thoughts and language so as to avoid being bullied out of their job.

The Maya Forstater case and the current flow of cases might even mean that Rosie has a case for taking the dancers themselves to court eventually.

What a mess.

WandaWomblesaurus · 08/05/2022 18:47

*current flow of cases that women are bringing against firms for losing their jobs because of their understanding of material reality in UK courts etc.

It must be awful for Rosie to have to live with the aftermath of what these dancers did to her.
I hope she is ok.

Rainbowshit · 08/05/2022 18:50

olzdee · 08/05/2022 18:22

You are insulting my daughter. A girl who has devoted nearly every minute of her life to her craft. When other kids were out playing she practiced and studied dance. A girl who at 14 won a scholarship to any top tier Dance school. If you had bothered to actually see the production you would have seen how she brought classically trained excellence to the show. She simply defended the rights of trans people. She always has stuck up for people. If you knew her you would not call her anything but an outstanding and kind person.

What your daughter did was not kind.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 08/05/2022 18:53

She simply defended the rights of trans people. She always has stuck up for people. If you knew her you would not call her anything but an outstanding and kind person.

It seems that Rosie Kay gave your daughter and other young people mentorship and a valuable opportunity to perform in a well-regarded piece of art, yet you think it's wholly appropriate to strip her of a source of income and her art on the say so of your daughter and her peers?

It's verifiable that JK Rowling is a remarkable philanthropist who has done a vast amount of good and has admirable compassion for others. Tell me, would you and your daughter acknowledge JKR as an outstanding and kind person? If not, why not?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/05/2022 19:15

Thanks olzdee. It's always good to remind us how many good women have been taken down by intolerant individuals with a limited understanding of the rights of women and the importance of free speech.

reallyisthisallthereis · 08/05/2022 19:20

oldzee. What made you resurrect an old thread now ? Has something new happened?

Pbbananabagel · 08/05/2022 19:28

@HoardingSamphireSaurus ive just got to say reading that felt like hearing my mum (massive feminist, lefty and fully paid up liberal) speak from the grave. This is so eloquently put. Thank you

Helleofabore · 08/05/2022 19:34

just posting what what Rosie did to warrant her treatment (resulting in the company then dissolving and all dancers losing their jobs…. because kindness obvs)

During one warm-up session she asked the male dancers to perform “boy jumps” and the females to do “girl jumps”, referring to specific classical ballet steps. At the coffee break she says the non-binary dancer who was cast in the female part complained that in doing this Kay had misgendered them. Kay says she apologised and said that ballet can be a gendered business, that she herself liked to “do the boy jumps because that fits better with my physicality”.

and

The evening passed well at first. But booze flowed, everyone got “lairy and loud”. This is when Kay told them how she was working with an LGBT book club and several trans friends to create Orlando. She explained the plot (none had read the book). Then talk turned more broadly to the difference between sex and gender.

Kay asked them to define non-binary. At that she says several male dancers shouted that she was a bigot and a terf.

When the company reconvened, the non-binary dancer in the female part had quit (an older dancer had to learn the part in two days) and had filed a further complaint about the party, saying Kay’s use of the words “penis” and “vagina” amounted to sexual harassment.

So…. In a dance that was Orlando and a fantasy about sex and gender, a choreographer cannot use anatomically correct terms, while not being allowed to refer to sexed dance moves or to explain her interpretation of the theme of the dance she is putting on.

A ‘senior’ dancer was one of just two people who complained and caused the owner and choreographer to be fired from her business, not just ‘her job’.

No. There must be more to this story if that dancer’s mum is turning up here and telling everyone that dancer is lovely, and so kind. Maybe mum, you agree that a woman should be put in that position because they did not validate your child’s beliefs and use your ADULT child’s chosen pronouns.

Lovelyricepudding · 08/05/2022 19:47

So your 'kind' daughter is so kind she is busily sticking up for the rights of men to ignore my (hard working) daughter's privacy, safety and dignity? She is so 'kind' that if my daughter wishes to undertake the sport she has trained for she must strip off on front of men? she must compete against men with all their male physical advantages? She must give up her place on the women's team to men? Wow what a kind daughter you have.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 08/05/2022 19:52

olzdee · 08/05/2022 18:32

My daughter is neither entitled or pampered. She worked and practiced from an early age going from a little Sunday ballet class to world class performances through hard work and sacrifice. She always got on well with any of her Instructors. She is shy and would not have made an issue out of nothing. She is the opposite to the type of person you describe. A hard working down to earth dancer.

She does sound rather dim though. Never mind, she'll understand more once she's grown up a bit.

Porkchis · 08/05/2022 20:05

Why does your daughter hate women?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 08/05/2022 20:12

olzdee · 08/05/2022 18:22

You are insulting my daughter. A girl who has devoted nearly every minute of her life to her craft. When other kids were out playing she practiced and studied dance. A girl who at 14 won a scholarship to any top tier Dance school. If you had bothered to actually see the production you would have seen how she brought classically trained excellence to the show. She simply defended the rights of trans people. She always has stuck up for people. If you knew her you would not call her anything but an outstanding and kind person.

It is possible to be hard-working and hard of thinking at the same time.

Faffertea · 08/05/2022 20:14

Assuming your daughter is the non binary person who complained why was your daughter happy to be the lead female role up until that point? Because your daughter knows they are female or because they were happy to take the role to further their career when it suited them?
Your daughter sounds lovely.