If a general election was called, who would you vote for?

[Anothernamechange3]

Or really, who can I vote for? I don’t want to vote Tory, especially after today’s revelations. I also don’t feel happy voting Labour or Green, for reasons often discussed on this board. Is there a party you’d feel happy to vote to be in power if you had a chance to, say, tomorrow? Feeling pretty despondent

I'd vote for anyone who could defeat the sitting MP, who's been there over 30 years. It's beginning to look slightly more likely, and could be done if the two main opposing parties got their act together. They both want him out as much as anyone, but they won't agree on a joint candidate, because they both think they can do better than the other party - which isn't the point.

@SpeedRunParent

It really worries me how many people would vote based on a single issue. People may not agree with 'gender woo' but would you really place your opinion about other people gender orientation over how much investment our mental health / social care / nhs services receive? Really?

Most people have some fundamental issues that they consider non-negotiable. Even people who say they don't. Often because they think that in some sense that issue underpins a large number of other issues.

They also may feel that the other options, while maybe somewhat better in other areas, are actually kind of crappy there too. Labour and other liberal parties like Labour have generally not actually challenged global capitalism in any serious way. And even when they put more cash into certain areas, they may or may not do so in a way that's effective. There is a judgment call for a voter around the degree to which they will really improve these things significantly.

For me though the fundamental problem is identity politics, free speech, lobbying, and all of these basic principles of liberal democracy. Gender ideology is only part of that. Parties like Labour haven't just embraced gender bollocks, they have embraced that whole approach to politics. And that is bad because it is an approach that fundamentally degrades the political system and our ability to influence it. If Labour had been in, there would not only be self-id, there very likely be laws like those here in Canada criminalizing talking about certain ideas as hate speech. There would not be any push back on academic freedom in universities at the political level. Etc.

That's not a single issue problem.

I'd genuinely struggle. We have a good lib dem candidate who is our local Councillor but the party is as captured as all the other left leaning parties.

The SDP don't really stand here and, ignoring the ukip defectees, I'm not a fan of their "traditional family values".

And I agree that gender politics is an enormous "single issue" that encompasses the dignity and safety of women and children.

Alba Party.

I don’t know what I'd do if I were in England or Wales.

Very well summarised LobsterNapkin

People may not agree with 'gender woo' but would you really place your opinion about other people gender orientation over how much investment our mental health / social care / nhs services receive? Really?

I don’t give a damn about other people’s gender identity. They’re welcome to express themselves in any way they like as long as it doesn’t infringe anyone else’s rights.

Allowing males into women-only spaces is a massive infringement of our rights. Add to that the child safeguarding issues, untested drug treatments on teenagers, loss of women’s sports etc, and that is one hell of a ‘single issue’.

A vote for anyone but the Tories is a vote for Stonewall.

I would give a hell of a lot to not have to live in the dehumanising, anti sexism on crack, dystopian female and safeguarding hell that will follow Stonewall getting into power.

I don't want this current farce of a government to continue, but will vote any way I have to to keep Stonewall out of power. It's one plain issue now.

the dehumanising, sexism on crack, dystopian anti-female and safeguarding hell that will follow Stonewall getting into power.

My kingdom for an edit button.

People may not agree with 'gender woo' but would you really place your opinion about other people gender orientation over how much investment our mental health / social care / nhs services receive? Really?

You're missing the point (and it's a big one.)

No, I don't give a fuck about nice stuff around investment in anything including the NHS once 50% of the human race have been subordinated to the other 50% in law, in society and in all services and a fuckton of those 50% now have access to no services at all

Remove rights from women and really expecting them to care about anything much than that is insanity.

Anyone still thinking at this point this has anything to do with 'woo' or 'how people identify' have no idea what they're truly talking about and need to start paying attention to what the issue actually is.

@Artichokeleaves

People may not agree with 'gender woo' but would you really place your opinion about other people gender orientation over how much investment our mental health / social care / nhs services receive? Really?

You're missing the point (and it's a big one.)

No, I don't give a fuck about nice stuff around investment in anything including the NHS once 50% of the human race have been subordinated to the other 50% in law, in society and in all services and a fuckton of those 50% now have access to no services at all

Remove rights from women and really expecting them to care about anything much than that is insanity.

This.

With shame, rage and fury, I'll hold my nose and vote Tory until a party whose principles I like either evolves, or returns to reality.

I genuinely think there are some brilliant people in both labour and conservative parties, I just wish they were more prominent voices.

I can’t answer your question. It’s just made me grateful to realise I don’t have to make that choice just yet.

It's not a single issue problem.

I'm surprised how many women on here have still not made the connection between this gender ideology and all the other identity politics.

Yea this is the most extreme form.
Yes this form threatens women.
But there are plenty of other groups playing the power/ victim game which allowed this ideology to take hold.

It's an underpinning philosophy that's taken hold of the left. That Life is a battle between oppressors and the oppressed.
Identity is everything.
Aim is to be in a victim identity group.
That's where the power now is.

The right haven't fully succumbed, so I'm with them for the moment. As if we go with the oppressed/ oppressor game we just divide and ultimately tear each other apart.

It sometimes seems the left want that.
Especially when they call you scum.

Malaga

I think for some of them, they actually are for identity politics generally, they only object to the gender element. Feminism for them is a form of identity politics.

Imagine voting for the Conservatives because you're more worried about a trans woman in a changing room, than you are about the hundreds of thousands of women disproportionately impacted by austerity.

If that's how you think, you've truly lost the plot, and you certainly don't care about women.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Imagine voting for the Conservatives because you're more worried about a trans woman in a changing room, than you are about the hundreds of thousands of women disproportionately impacted by austerity.

If that's how you think, you've truly lost the plot, and you certainly don't care about women.

But you can change austerity with a single Budget. How do you write women back into law once we no longer exist? All I hear from posts like yours is "be kind, be kind, be kind".

If Labour really wanted to get into power and help poorer people they'd dump the genderism and the patronising attitudes. They'd stop calling Leavers racists. They'd lock Owen Jones in a wooden box and leave him somewhere in Siberia.
Labour don't give a fuck about actually getting into power. They all still get paid anyway. They get to play at politics without any responsibility. They can be as woke as they want to be, they can claim good versus evil etc etc. Pragmatically speaking it's a total waste of time, but it obviously works on some people because there are plenty who suck it up and still vote Labour. I won't, I was a Labour voter all my life and I'm an ex-member but they can fuck right off. Does that make me scum? I don't give a fuck.

Imagine voting for the Conservatives because you're more worried about a trans woman in a changing room,
If you think this is about changing rooms you have a lot of catching up to do!

@CorrBlimeyGG

Imagine voting for the Conservatives because you're more worried about a trans woman in a changing room, than you are about the hundreds of thousands of women disproportionately impacted by austerity.

If that's how you think, you've truly lost the plot, and you certainly don't care about women.

I agree, if you're voting Tory because you think they're the best bet for women's rights there's just not a lot to say about that really! Words fail.

LobsterNapkin
Feminism for them is a form of identity politics.

I agree.
And it's what has now stopped me calling myself a feminist.
This issue has stopped me being a feminist.

Although I still rage and protest about this issue for women and on other issues for women - girls.

I'm no longer interested in seeing everything to do with women as a power struggle with men or the patriarchy.

This is where it leads.

And the left is trying to fight for every oppressed identity group going, and tying themselves into illogical knots doing it.

I'm out.

I'm not going near labour again until they ditch this whole identity based ideology.
It's dangerous and is sowing division.

If they think it's a good idea for everyone to divide themselves into groups and ask them to blame each and fight for power... it's not going to end well.

We know this.

The fact that any political party (in this case in England Labour & the Liberal Democrats) populated by apparently educated & thoughtful has allowed itself to believe such complete & utter nonsense is the key issue fir me

people who are sane & sensible on any other topic are spouting such unmitigated fuckwitted bullshit such as a man is literally a woman if he says or that there’s no problem putting men in Women’s sports is the issue for me. I mean really? REALLY??

if they are either a) that fucking stupid or b) that easily persuaded of such patent bollocks then how on earth could I trust them not to believe other unmitigated fuckwitted nonsense??

That’s why I won’t vote Labour or Lib Dem atm. It’s because they’re behaving like morons - how can I trust them in the economy or the NHS when they apparently can’t tell the difference between men and women?

So spoiled paper for me

It really worries me how many people would vote based on a single issue. People may not agree with 'gender woo' but would you really place your opinion about other people gender orientation.

It's not just about other people's gender orientation though, is it? It's about everybody's identity, including mine. Why would I vote for a party that denies material reality and thinks it's ok to redefine or erase the category of person that I am? Frankly, that would be like a turkey voting for Christmas!

And what makes it almost worse is that I don't believe for one single second that people like Keir Starmer have the teeniest doubt about what a woman is really. They are just too bloody cowardly to admit it.

That too Lazy. I don’t think Keir Starmer or Ed Davey don’t know what a woman is, they’re just too cowardly to stand up & say it. They’ve allowed their parties to become bullied by a small number of fanatical activists because it’s easier than saying no and anyway it’s just women innit!

They are totally spineless, so again, why would I trust them not to be spineless over other things?

if they are either a) that fucking stupid or b) that easily persuaded of such patent bollocks then how on earth could I trust them not to believe other unmitigated fuckwitted nonsense
Yup. As far as I'm concerned, any party that says it's wrong to say only women have a cervix is either too stupid or too cowardly to be trusted with power.

They don't speak up because they are men and this is a women's issue. They don't care.

FWIW I think Boris cares either. It Tory women, for the most part, who are speaking up.