If a general election was called, who would you vote for?

[Anothernamechange3]

Or really, who can I vote for? I don’t want to vote Tory, especially after today’s revelations. I also don’t feel happy voting Labour or Green, for reasons often discussed on this board. Is there a party you’d feel happy to vote to be in power if you had a chance to, say, tomorrow? Feeling pretty despondent

And I don't think you've responded re UK is made of 4 countries, and is not one island.

I really think you need to address that, it's just not ok.

It's a nightmare. No one represents my beliefs.
In my bones I'm a socialist but I'm also a woman, old-school type, born female and enduring 'female' all my life.
What women have done - artists, doctors, pioneers, philosophers, scientists, sportswomen, teachers, writers - and what they will do: mindboggling and humbling, and please god if there is a god, let them continue to do it and let them be called women.

Enduring female.
See, I just don't get that.
I find it sad that people would find being female an endurance.

Be proud of who you are is what I'm trying to say

Women and girls all over the world endure all sorts of shit and have for at least millennia.

Shit that is BECAUSE they are female in societies that are patriarchal, misogynist, sexist.

Very few women/ girls in UK have zero things happen or be done to them, just because they're female.

From the subtle, usually not recognised, to the worst things imaginable.

I get you totally Wagner.

'What women have done - artists, doctors, pioneers, philosophers, scientists, sportswomen, teachers, writers - and what they will do'...

And often erased from history, characterised in ways that are not factual, ignored, overlooked.

There's that saying isn't there, history is written by the victors.

And when it comes to women and girls. When have we been the ones writing history?

@newnamesa

I think identity politics has been adopted by the left and the young because they are too afraid/defeated/ignorant to push left wing economics. The elders in the left movement go along with it because they think it appeals to the young. But because its bullshit it will end up destroying the left. Well it already has really.

Not just because it will appeal to the young. But because these parties are in reality as enmeshed in global capitalism as the Tories, or in the US the Republicans, are. Identity politics issues no challenge to the status quo around globalism. And it allows them to demonize those that hold traditional leftist positions on things like movement of labour which might be challenging for globalism.

The idea that somehow this is morally preferable to what the Conservatives have to offer is pretty questionable.

I'm not sure about this Tory-bigot connection. Is that purely on the basis that they are perceived as anti-EU or anti-immigration? Because it isn't as if they don't have MPs from quite a few different backgrounds.

But this:

They are steadily challenging and undermining various structures that exist to call the govt. to account and provide legal checks and balances upon them. From the electoral commission to the parliamentary standards authority.

is worth noting. Without suggesting this is the fault of LP or other liberal parties, a significant reason this sort of measure is getting support in the population is due to idiotic people who believe themselves to be progressive protesting in ways that the public finds problematic.

There was an article recently in a local paper to mine about a similar protest here where a bridge was blocked off during rush hour - many people were very angry. I commented, without saying anything about the actual issue, that this sort of protest had led in the UK to restrictions on protests, and that it might not be a good idea and ultimately harmful. The comments in response were "check your privilege" and that I was a bigot. Nice.

The fact is that in terms of real economic policies, and even authoritarianism, there is little difference between major parties in most western English speaking countries. It's really a choice between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. That being the case, most people are going to vote for someone who does't treat them like a moron, or who doesn't tell them they don't want their vote.

Bugger, my quote up there isn't the right para at all - I meant to talk about the restrictions on protesting!

It's not complicated I don't think.

It's all about men wanting stuff.
And about women being expected to quietly accept whatever is asked of them.

For labour -
The problem is they know they are good, and they know they are right.

Especially the men. Well IME loads of labour men. And thinking, I have never had this from labour women I know.

They talklk at you. Don't listen. Take any even mild questioning of anything. Very badly. They are clever and right. Their role is to go on and on at the woman who can't find an excuse to run. Her role is to listen, look very impressed. To feel privileged to hear his wisdom.

And I have said political systems were made by men for men to consider things that are important to men. Historically that's surely undeniable.

Labour no different.
Really came home to me when watched Bob crowe speaking at a conference.
The workers this, protect the workers etc.
It was obvious to me that when he said the workers he was thinking of the working men. And I thought. Ah.

As they are so good and right and caring.
They refuse to consider ever that they might be missing something.
The anti-semetism blind eye for years.
How it was obviously necessary to push women out of the party who questioned, disagreed.
They are obviously right. Always.

And they IME are the worst when it comes to men patronising women. Reacting really badly to her not realising it's not s conversation. It's a self righteous monologue.

On this issue. As ever they firmly believe that they are right and that's that.
And to have women in labour questioning their wisdom?
Totally unacceptable. They are not really left at all. They must go.

@Triphazards

Tory seems the most sensible way to vote. I'd go with that.

I'd love to know why you think they are a sensible option.

Have you been living under a rock and missed the Boris Johnson School of Clowns & Trickery?

Tories when it comes to women are very different.

They value (at least the ones that aren't JRM etc) standing on your own two feet. Those who are determined to succeed, make money, who are driven, keep at it etc. Old school basic right, low tax, small state. Hard work rewarded, no handouts. That stuff.

Conservative women from what I've seen in my life. Are often outspoken, no nonsense, think twice before pissing me off types.

With the Tories (old school right wing types) they are more interested in the values than who you are. (Yes yes Priti Patel etc I'm talking the general population and MPs who are just standard right views).
So if you are own two feet etc that's more important than sex, religion etc.
The party of choice often for those with small businesses, self employed people.
(Plus of course the very wealthy).

Two female prime ministers Vs labour none. Obvious thing to mention.

Do they care about women? Not especially. Groups getting shit, not interested. Not what they are about at all.

So in the end. My view is. That looking to political parties to act on this issue is zero. They either don't care or will screw us totally.

This is about women and girls. Outside that system. Not about right or left. Zero point looking for help there.

If we want to fight this WE have to do it. Irrespective of differences in politics etc.

That's what I think.

GAD because some people are on the political right! Lots in fact.

Arguing about party politics is a huge distraction. This is about women and girls, all of us.

@CheeseMmmm

GAD because some people are on the political right! Lots in fact.

Arguing about party politics is a huge distraction. This is about women and girls, all of us.

Let's agree to disagree. I think that party politics is fundamentally and intrinsically relevant to women and girls. Who we vote for is almost the only way we can advocate in real terms.

Who said party politics isn't fundamental to women and girls?

No one. I don't think. Definitely not me anyway.

Why say that? Just agree to disagree fine.
Deciding to round it off with saying well you're wrong (about this thing you never said).
Why?
What's the point?
If you don't want to discuss the things I've actually said. Why make something up and pretend I said it?

Why do so many posters do this? I just don't understand.

Oh missed this.

'Who we vote for is almost the only way we can advocate in real terms.'

I like the almost but come off it!
We have to fight and fight for every crumb!

If we sat around voting every 4/5 years in the hope that it would bring real change for women/girls.

Well. We wouldn't get far because we still wouldn't have the vote.

Bit of a problem there...

@CheeseMmmm

You said

Arguing about party politics is a huge distraction. This is about women and girls, all of us. I took that to mean you were isolating party politics from feminist issues.

You have a real chip on your shoulder.

And it is. From the reason the thread exists which is sex/ gender.

There's a clue to that, the reason for the thread, in the OP.

That it's on the Feminism- sex and gender board is also a bit of a hint.

'I took that to mean you were isolating party politics from feminist issues.'

It's always a risk you'll blunder if you don't read the thread, ignore the context, don't look at other posts of the person you are commenting to/ about.

That you'll end up having to take one line from one post to ',prove' that the person you responded to. That stripped of all context well. You DID say that! See?

No I didn't. You really thought that was the way to go?!

And then chip shoulder. Oh no! I feel so ashamed.

Out of interest though. Chip on shoulder about what, exactly?

significant reason this sort of measure is getting support in the population is due to idiotic people who believe themselves to be progressive protesting in ways that the public finds problematic.

Is it getting support? Or are people just not aware? I think we have an increasingly pressured and self driven society where people are enraged at inconvenience. Yes. But I don't know the populace support the police bill etc, do they?

My other question is whether it makes any difference anymore. I can't forget the anger at the Iraq war declaration, the massive spontaneous protests, everyone furious. They brought Glasgow to a halt. Millions marched. Remember?

I can't imagine a larger peaceful protest in my lifetime. It had no effect.

FifteenToes - mutually exclusive in that if Amnesty and Liberty are willing to sacrifice women's rights I will no longer support them, whatever else they do.

If there is a candidate in my constituency I'll be voting for the Social Democrats.

I agree with them on 80%, which for me is enough, and they know what a woman is.

We've got a choice, we vote A, B, C or one of the many lower case d parties.
If I was a bookie, I'd say A is likely to win. B is in a slow death spiral (sadly). C will continue to influence at the margins and in local government, and may influence A. All the lower case ddddddd's won't get anywhere because of the voting system.

On top of that, we have women's rights. A almost gave them away but stopped for whatever reason. B wants to destroy them. C likewise. All the ddddd's have different views on it but have little influence.

On general politics, A seem to care less about people who are struggling, and they have a tendency to be financially corrupt. B occasionally do something to help people who are struggling, but don't think through the consequences of their really quite surface-level changes. C I don't know, I haven't seen them do anything for anyone really. And the little parties, again, it doesn't matter what they say they'll do because they'll never get a chance to do it .

I agree with whoever said the US is a red herring, because their Democrats are more like the Tories and their Republicans are further right than any party we have. Our system is more like other European countries than the US, they're a totally different kettle of fish.

Who to vote for? It is a tricky one definitely. Ultimately it depends on whether women's rights are your primary motivator. It doesn't necessarily mean that voters don't like and deeply care about aspects of a potential Labour manifesto.

I mean, if they were offering better schools, better funding for the NHS, Sure Start centres and massive job creation that'd be great, but if they tied that to (for example) a return to conscription to support a full scale land invasion of Iran, I wouldn't vote for them. Doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for them if they didn't have a ticking time bomb policy on the table. Personally I'm pissed off because my personal belief is that if they really cared about schools and the NHS etc, they wouldn't even have the massively off-putting policy on the table at all. They'd recognise that it was someone hardly anyone wants and that it was preventing them from achieving anything else.

" Two female prime ministers Vs labour none. Obvious thing to mention "

And I think we about to see a third.

Boris is toast and Liz Truss can win a leadership election, not least because she has got a lot of support from Tory women on the trans issue.

@zanahoria

" Two female prime ministers Vs labour none. Obvious thing to mention "

And I think we about to see a third.

Boris is toast and Liz Truss can win a leadership election, not least because she has got a lot of support from Tory women on the trans issue.

That would be brilliant

I would vote for Peppa Pig