If a general election was called, who would you vote for?

[Anothernamechange3]

Or really, who can I vote for? I don’t want to vote Tory, especially after today’s revelations. I also don’t feel happy voting Labour or Green, for reasons often discussed on this board. Is there a party you’d feel happy to vote to be in power if you had a chance to, say, tomorrow? Feeling pretty despondent

Kemi Badenoch would be a great choice for Conservative party leader too in my opinion. She speaks with authority and confidence, she appears to be intelligent and capable.

I like Kemi Badenoch. She couldn't do a worse job than the current fuckwit, and the chances are she'd do a much better job.

I feel confident that either Liz Truss or Kemi Badenoch would do a much better job than the current leader.

Tory. Unless they bring in vaccine mandates in which case I won't be able to vote for anyone.

@ArabellaScott

significant reason this sort of measure is getting support in the population is due to idiotic people who believe themselves to be progressive protesting in ways that the public finds problematic.

Is it getting support? Or are people just not aware? I think we have an increasingly pressured and self driven society where people are enraged at inconvenience. Yes. But I don't know the populace support the police bill etc, do they?

My other question is whether it makes any difference anymore. I can't forget the anger at the Iraq war declaration, the massive spontaneous protests, everyone furious. They brought Glasgow to a halt. Millions marched. Remember?

I can't imagine a larger peaceful protest in my lifetime. It had no effect.

Let's say, I think there was more support, or less push back, than their would have been otherwise.

Most people support the right to protest, but understand there are limits. Protesting on private property in some cases, safety, etc.

When you start to see a lot of protests focused it seems on screwing things up for people who may actually support your cause, people start to ask what's really going on with that, they don't see the connection between the act and the cause. They become cynical. It's no longer about bringing awareness that lots of people want something done, it's about pressuring the state to do something or you will disrupt civic life. Which can be anti-democratic when you come down to it.

I don't think protests in general are very effective. Occasionally they may be, but I think they have to have specific policy demands, and very widespread support that's well articulated elsewhere.

It's no longer about bringing awareness that lots of people want something done, it's about pressuring the state to do something or you will disrupt civic life

Yes, sure. A sort of mild terrorism, I suppose, if one looks at it in a certain light.

I agree that I don't think protests are generally all that effective. I think they're a channel for emotion, perhaps, and a signal to those taking part. Seems to be more effect in getting involved in media, speaking to representatives directly, etc.

'terrorism' is the wrong word. 'Coercion', maybe.

Truss for PM? Hmm ...

Yes, sure. A sort of mild terrorism, I suppose, if one looks at it in a certain light.

It kinda is. Mild definitely because there's no intent to kill, but the effect of blockading the roads to ensure Bluewater is empty (for example) has the same financial effect as phoning in a bomb threat and having the place evacuated. One is more socially acceptable than the other though.

Tory. I just can't bring myself to trust Labour on the economy. I am convinced they would increase all benefits and raise taxes.

Boris is an unconscionable liar and the Tory party have lost their way but I would vote for them anyway because every single other party including WEP would fling away women's rights on their first day in office.

We simply cannot trust any of them with the safety and well-being of our children. The Tories are not perfect on the gender cult but they are the only game in town for safeguarding our children.

My resistance to voting Tory is more visceral than it is rational, I recognise that. If the left of centre parties don't find their spine soon, and the SDP don't field a candidate round here, then there may come a point when I may have to have a conversation with myself about it.

However that is not going to happen while Boris Johnson remains leader, because quite frankly I don't believe a word he says and as long as his party leave him in charge then I don't trust them to deliver on any promises either.

My resistance to voting Tory is more visceral than it is rational

I totally get that. I spent most of my adult life hating them. Now I'm more pissed off with Labour for throwing the poor under the bus for woke points. I expected more from Labour, I don't expect much from the Conservatives.

One thing I do like about Boris's government is the number of black and brown ministers he has, and they're all the civic nationalist type - that appeals to me. Whereas I find that opposition tends to portray any immigrant background people of whatever colour as life's victims, and as not really British.

Whereas I find that opposition tends to portray any immigrant background people of whatever colour as life's victims, and as not really British.

Yes, I think that's quite telling.

I spent most of my adult life hating them. Now I'm more pissed off with Labour for throwing the poor under the bus for woke points. I expected more from Labour, I don't expect much from the Conservatives.
Yes, same here. These days I'm much more angry with Labour because I feel so let down by them, because I feel they took me for a fool through 40-odd years of voting, and because they have the fucking nerve to behave as if they're still entitled to my vote.

@Floisme

I spent most of my adult life hating them. Now I'm more pissed off with Labour for throwing the poor under the bus for woke points. I expected more from Labour, I don't expect much from the Conservatives. Yes, same here. These days I'm much more angry with Labour because I feel so let down by them, because I feel they took me for a fool through 40-odd years of voting, and because they have the fucking nerve to behave as if they're still entitled to my vote.

Yes exactly. And they have the audacity to tell me I'm a big meanie and a bad person for not backing down.

So voting Tory is unacceptable, but you have no problems with posters who are voting communist?

This. My jaw dropped when I saw people saying they voted communist! Read a book, maybe?

Dunno wtf I'd do since I'm in Scotland. I'd be happy to vote SDP if they were standing. Otherwise, Tory.

I can't imagine ever voting Labour again.

@CheeseMmmm

Sorry I have to pick up on this -

For me your posts stand out not for the political views you express but how you express them.

I mean saying ooh reform what about them? That was pointed, at who, just any and all other posters on thread? And it was unwarranted. And tbh just a nasty thing to post.

WTF? There was nothing nasty about it. It wasn't pointed at anyone in particular. People all over the thread have been saying they want a party that opposes identity politics, and it occurred to me they would be the most likely to do so, that's all.

It was completely open-minded, and not intended to imply anything. I even said that I actively agree with some of their policies.

In one breath you accuse me of being too narrow and putting down anyone whose politics don't align with my own. And then when I open the conversation up with something from outside of my own, you assume I've got some agenda or something.

@FlyingOink

I totally get that. I spent most of my adult life hating them. Now I'm more pissed off with Labour for throwing the poor under the bus for woke points. I expected more from Labour, I don't expect much from the Conservatives.

What have Labour done that you would call "throwing the poor under the bus"?

Yes. The woke. We need to focus on the real problem. Economics.

@ArabellaScott

FifteenToes - mutually exclusive in that if Amnesty and Liberty are willing to sacrifice women's rights I will no longer support them, whatever else they do.

Right. So it's not actually that Amnesty are "spending time telling women they are second class citizens with no right to complain" instead of defending civil liberties, as you said, but rather that you're so pissed off about them doing the former that you can't support them doing the latter.

Which is your right, absolutely. But it's an important distinction.

@Triphazards

Tory seems the most sensible way to vote. I'd go with that.

Are you aware of the mess the government has made and the lies that Johnson spews?

You said

Arguing about party politics is a huge distraction. This is about women and girls, all of us. I took that to mean you were isolating party politics from feminist issues.

You have a real chip on your shoulder.

---------

And it is. From the reason the thread exists which is sex/ gender.

There's a clue to that, the reason for the thread, in the OP.

Actually, there's not a single word in the thread title or the OP that says anything about sex/gender.

You could argue that because it's on the sex/gender BOARD people could be expected to assume that's the point. But the OP itself doesn't specify in any way to what extent it's inviting input purely from a feminist perspective, or from a more general one.

I'm also in Scotland and I'd spoil. I'm politically homeless

@Fifteentoes

You said

Arguing about party politics is a huge distraction. This is about women and girls, all of us. I took that to mean you were isolating party politics from feminist issues.

You have a real chip on your shoulder.

---------

And it is. From the reason the thread exists which is sex/ gender.

There's a clue to that, the reason for the thread, in the OP.

Actually, there's not a single word in the thread title or the OP that says anything about sex/gender.

You could argue that because it's on the sex/gender BOARD people could be expected to assume that's the point. But the OP itself doesn't specify in any way to what extent it's inviting input purely from a feminist perspective, or from a more general one.

In OP. In their thread on Feminism: sex and gender.

'I also don’t feel happy voting Labour or Green, for reasons often discussed on this board'

If you didn't get a clue from the board, the OPs opening post.

Or any of the posts that somehow realised (mind readers?) that it was about gender / sex.

First page

'It seems like Labour - and the other parties - are thoroughly captured from the grassroots to the cowering top, and dissenters aren't allowed to speak up. I've realised that freedom of conscience and freedom of thought are the most important values for me, without which all else is trivial. I had just taken them.for granted up until recently.'

Next post

'From now on I will be voting by candidate rather than party. The first qualifying question is easy: What is a woman?'

Couple posts later still same page

'I wish I was in Canterbury so I could vote for Rosie Duffield.'

Then OP

'I haven’t considered Lib Dems since my one and only ever vote for them resulted in a coalition with the conservatives and a quick glance at their equalities page of their website makes lots of reference to gender and gender identity but not sex. Does this mean what I suspect it does? Why is sex not allowed in this list?'

Could be a coincidence that plenty posters assumed it was about sex/ gender,?

Maybe the OP herself got confused and forgot why she started the thread?

Why bother with this?

You claimed I was clear that party politics were totally irrelevant to women and girls, on any and all feminist issues ie anything at all related to anything where women and girls are having a bad time in some way. From trivial to utterly horrific.

And so there's zero point in going anything at all to try and get govt and presumably all the mechanisms of govt to do anything.

You are honestly trying to prove that I believe/ said that. And there's no indication from OP or anywhere else that this is about gender/sex.

Rather than saying oh right fair enough. Missed context. Sorry.
And move on.

Why? Insist that despite the obvious, you know better what the thread is actually about and therefore. Even if you did think it was about sex/ gender. I'm holding you to a position that it's very unlikely indeed you hold, and I accept that you were talking about sex/ gender. Nonetheless you said this and you meant what I said you meant.

Isn't it s bit pointless?
Do you ever just say oops ok ignore that?

I do. If I've got something wrong.
I don't carry on doing this. Thing. That you're doing. Imo makes people (and it's not uncommon on here to see this) look a bit silly really.